My Power Mods.
05-25-2013, 10:56 PM
#12
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Viera, FL
Posts: 216
I blacked out for a full minute. This sentence in reference to ANYTHING Cliffyk says just does not compute and is surely a sign of the end times. If Cliffyk told me that a chicken could pull a freight train, I'm hookin that little clucker up! Yes, I'm ignorant to all the HP, torque and flow rate/duty cycle stuff, but you could have been a little kinder in your rebuttal. If your sig numbers weren't crystal clear to Cliffyk at a glance you should probably redo your sig. Congrats on a nice build. Great car and vids!
P.S. - I have a trunk monkey and I'm not sure if he's pulling one over on me or not. Is it true that owners of trunk monkeys now have to ride in the trunk while the monkey drives?
Last edited by Vertigo_GT; 05-25-2013 at 11:27 PM.
05-26-2013, 08:05 AM
#13
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 18
uberstang1- I don't know what tell you. If you don't believe the numbers then you are calling Bob Kurgan/Kurgan Motorsports a liar. All the numbers I see coming out of there seem right on par with the mods. I have never seen a 2v with a decent cam and long tubes only make 260hp.
Last edited by 04GTRed; 05-28-2013 at 08:24 AM.
05-28-2013, 07:05 AM
#14
I agree. cliffyk I do apologize. The response could have been handle differently.
uberstang1- I don't know what tell you. If you don't believe the numbers then you are calling Bob Kurgan/Kurgan Motorsports a liar. All the numbers I see coming out of there seem right on par with the mods. I have never seen a 2v with a decent cam and long tubes only make 260hp.
uberstang1- I don't know what tell you. If you don't believe the numbers then you are calling Bob Kurgan/Kurgan Motorsports a liar. All the numbers I see coming out of there seem right on par with the mods. I have never seen a 2v with a decent cam and long tubes only make 260hp.
05-28-2013, 08:07 AM
#16
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
To me it is not a cam or headers issue, or is it possible to make 300 rwHP (350 fwHP¹) with a n/a 2V, I just question doing it with 21 lb/h injectors (running @ 40 psi).
At 100% duty cycle they would deliver 21 * 8 = 168 lb/h of gasoline. While that would support 350 fwHP (at a BSFC² of 0.48), it is also running the poor injectors flat out in what is called "static" operation--I.e. always open, a point at which any increase in air flow would result in an immediate and nasty leaning of the mix (severe detonation and all hell breaking loose).
At the upper end of practicality, 95% duty cycle, they would deliver 159.6 lb/h of fuel which at 0.48 BSFC would support 332.5 fwHP, 282 at the wheels. Conservative rule-of-thumb injector selection uses 80% d/c as a target, at 85% the 21s pass 134.4 lb/h. enough for just 268 HP at the crankshaft--which I am certain is why Ford's engineers selected them to support the 2V's claimed 260 fwHP, the 19s were just a tad too small.
So with that said I will recant a bit and say that while it may be "possible" to get 300 rwHP with the 21 lb/h injectors, it is not even close to a properly configured build and is a blatant flirting with disaster situation.
24 lb/h units would be better suited to the task, even they would be working at 85 to 90% d/c to support 350 fwHP.
---------------------------------------------------------
¹ - fwHP = flywheel horsepower, assuming a 15% drive train loss.
² - BSFC = Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, lb/h of fuel needed to produce 1 HP. 0.5 is a typical value for a reasonably efficient n/a engine, like the 4.6 L 2V. 0.6 is a common value when running f/i.
At 100% duty cycle they would deliver 21 * 8 = 168 lb/h of gasoline. While that would support 350 fwHP (at a BSFC² of 0.48), it is also running the poor injectors flat out in what is called "static" operation--I.e. always open, a point at which any increase in air flow would result in an immediate and nasty leaning of the mix (severe detonation and all hell breaking loose).
At the upper end of practicality, 95% duty cycle, they would deliver 159.6 lb/h of fuel which at 0.48 BSFC would support 332.5 fwHP, 282 at the wheels. Conservative rule-of-thumb injector selection uses 80% d/c as a target, at 85% the 21s pass 134.4 lb/h. enough for just 268 HP at the crankshaft--which I am certain is why Ford's engineers selected them to support the 2V's claimed 260 fwHP, the 19s were just a tad too small.
So with that said I will recant a bit and say that while it may be "possible" to get 300 rwHP with the 21 lb/h injectors, it is not even close to a properly configured build and is a blatant flirting with disaster situation.
24 lb/h units would be better suited to the task, even they would be working at 85 to 90% d/c to support 350 fwHP.
---------------------------------------------------------
¹ - fwHP = flywheel horsepower, assuming a 15% drive train loss.
² - BSFC = Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, lb/h of fuel needed to produce 1 HP. 0.5 is a typical value for a reasonably efficient n/a engine, like the 4.6 L 2V. 0.6 is a common value when running f/i.
05-28-2013, 08:57 AM
#17
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 18
To me it is not a cam or headers issue, or is it possible to make 300 rwHP (350 fwHP¹) with a n/a 2V, I just question doing it with 21 lb/h injectors (running @ 40 psi).
At 100% duty cycle they would deliver 21 * 8 = 168 lb/h of gasoline. While that would support 350 fwHP (at a BSFC² of 0.48), it is also running the poor injectors flat out in what is called "static" operation--I.e. always open, a point at which any increase in air flow would result in an immediate and nasty leaning of the mix (severe detonation and all hell breaking loose).
At the upper end of practicality, 95% duty cycle, they would deliver 159.6 lb/h of fuel which at 0.48 BSFC would support 332.5 fwHP, 282 at the wheels. Conservative rule-of-thumb injector selection uses 80% d/c as a target, at 85% the 21s pass 134.4 lb/h. enough for just 268 HP at the crankshaft--which I am certain is why Ford's engineers selected them to support the 2V's claimed 260 fwHP, the 19s were just a tad too small.
So with that said I will recant a bit and say that while it may be "possible" to get 300 rwHP with the 21 lb/h injectors, it is not even close to a properly configured build and is a blatant flirting with disaster situation.
24 lb/h units would be better suited to the task, even they would be working at 85 to 90% d/c to support 350 fwHP.
---------------------------------------------------------
¹ - fwHP = flywheel horsepower, assuming a 15% drive train loss.
² - BSFC = Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, lb/h of fuel needed to produce 1 HP. 0.5 is a typical value for a reasonably efficient n/a engine, like the 4.6 L 2V. 0.6 is a common value when running f/i.
At 100% duty cycle they would deliver 21 * 8 = 168 lb/h of gasoline. While that would support 350 fwHP (at a BSFC² of 0.48), it is also running the poor injectors flat out in what is called "static" operation--I.e. always open, a point at which any increase in air flow would result in an immediate and nasty leaning of the mix (severe detonation and all hell breaking loose).
At the upper end of practicality, 95% duty cycle, they would deliver 159.6 lb/h of fuel which at 0.48 BSFC would support 332.5 fwHP, 282 at the wheels. Conservative rule-of-thumb injector selection uses 80% d/c as a target, at 85% the 21s pass 134.4 lb/h. enough for just 268 HP at the crankshaft--which I am certain is why Ford's engineers selected them to support the 2V's claimed 260 fwHP, the 19s were just a tad too small.
So with that said I will recant a bit and say that while it may be "possible" to get 300 rwHP with the 21 lb/h injectors, it is not even close to a properly configured build and is a blatant flirting with disaster situation.
24 lb/h units would be better suited to the task, even they would be working at 85 to 90% d/c to support 350 fwHP.
---------------------------------------------------------
¹ - fwHP = flywheel horsepower, assuming a 15% drive train loss.
² - BSFC = Brake Specific Fuel Consumption, lb/h of fuel needed to produce 1 HP. 0.5 is a typical value for a reasonably efficient n/a engine, like the 4.6 L 2V. 0.6 is a common value when running f/i.
05-28-2013, 04:05 PM
#19
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
Posts: 40
So I was asked earlier what mods I had made to get 298 Hp/323 tq to the wheels. Here is what I have:
CAI, 75mm TB w/intake elbow and spacer, udp's, Long tube headers, catted x-pipe, MHS Nitrous Stage 1 cams and a tune by Kurgan Motorsports.
The rest of the engine is completely stock as it arrived from Ford.
With the nitrous on a 48 jet, it made the power you see in the sig.
As you can see it's a pretty simple set up. I'll be glad to answer any questions.
CAI, 75mm TB w/intake elbow and spacer, udp's, Long tube headers, catted x-pipe, MHS Nitrous Stage 1 cams and a tune by Kurgan Motorsports.
The rest of the engine is completely stock as it arrived from Ford.
With the nitrous on a 48 jet, it made the power you see in the sig.
As you can see it's a pretty simple set up. I'll be glad to answer any questions.
i made 340 at the wheel with vortech s-1 (not at all quiet - 8lbs) + pleunum/tb + power pipe + the all mighty k&n + weld in mufflers.
05-28-2013, 04:24 PM
#20
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 18
Nitrous is about $4-$5 per lbs. As for shots per tank, a 10lbs tank can usually go for 7 passes and that's it. This is also dependent on how much nitrous you are spraying. Now I never run one that low, I usually only do 3-4 passes before switching to a fresh tank.
Throw an x-pipe on your car with a set of blower cams and 10 lbs of boost and I bet you will be over 400 hp to the wheels.