Some stuff to think about!
11-14-2005, 07:55 PM
#1
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location:
Posts: 752
Some stuff to think about!
Ok I am recently working on a non-pi car and have done alot of research and read some interesting stuff lately I have taken the time to think things through and I have made several assumptions and decisions.
Ok first thing is why would someone pay 1200-1600$ on a pi head swap that would not alow for a supercharger because of compression, when for 1500-2000$ a perfect whole pi motor/W wiring could be purchased!.............? Then a super charger could be used. To change heads it is easyer to pull the motor anyway. This is just my thought on how backwards we can think. For 1200$ my pops had world heads built that bolt on gave 40hp on his 5.8w pushroder! Until some company comes out with an aftermarket heads that are of aftermarket castings and not ford casting that are modified to flow better (and yes I know about svo heads I have even used them before) for 1200$-1600$. This is rediculous. The only reason that companys are making it in the business world modifying factory heads, is because major magazines have promoted them. Plus we have people that are dumb enough to belive everything they read and buy right into it like some sort of mirracle product they wish they could have. I recently went to my machine shop and talked to my machinest in San Antonio. He has a customer that is running non piheads in N/A form running 12.50s. ??????????????????? I was like ok getter done! So for all of these PI must swap or your junk folk......um ya I dont want to flare anyone so I will bight my tounge so for now here are my plans and I have already got started so please chime in and let me know what you think. Also this friend of my machinest is a national mod motor champ, and he is very popular as well as in the truck seen but for now I will keep all of that info to myself as for protection of others and weather or not you believe me I realy dont give a hoot because I am on my path, so I gues just chime in.
tune
Cams
gears
pi intake swap
elbow t-body
anderson powerpipe
long tube headers w/xpipe
pulleys
MAF
torque arm and panhard bar
lower control arms
sub frames
sticky tires
and a cocky additude with minor results
This I belive will get close to twelves or in 12's according to my source the guy still uses factory cams....maybe pi cams? but he says most of it is in the tune and the car set up, also a world champ will probly have 100X's better driving skills than me.......so I guess only time will tell. They told me that 6 tenths of a second came from the tune alone! could that be true?
Ok first thing is why would someone pay 1200-1600$ on a pi head swap that would not alow for a supercharger because of compression, when for 1500-2000$ a perfect whole pi motor/W wiring could be purchased!.............? Then a super charger could be used. To change heads it is easyer to pull the motor anyway. This is just my thought on how backwards we can think. For 1200$ my pops had world heads built that bolt on gave 40hp on his 5.8w pushroder! Until some company comes out with an aftermarket heads that are of aftermarket castings and not ford casting that are modified to flow better (and yes I know about svo heads I have even used them before) for 1200$-1600$. This is rediculous. The only reason that companys are making it in the business world modifying factory heads, is because major magazines have promoted them. Plus we have people that are dumb enough to belive everything they read and buy right into it like some sort of mirracle product they wish they could have. I recently went to my machine shop and talked to my machinest in San Antonio. He has a customer that is running non piheads in N/A form running 12.50s. ??????????????????? I was like ok getter done! So for all of these PI must swap or your junk folk......um ya I dont want to flare anyone so I will bight my tounge so for now here are my plans and I have already got started so please chime in and let me know what you think. Also this friend of my machinest is a national mod motor champ, and he is very popular as well as in the truck seen but for now I will keep all of that info to myself as for protection of others and weather or not you believe me I realy dont give a hoot because I am on my path, so I gues just chime in.
tune
Cams
gears
pi intake swap
elbow t-body
anderson powerpipe
long tube headers w/xpipe
pulleys
MAF
torque arm and panhard bar
lower control arms
sub frames
sticky tires
and a cocky additude with minor results
This I belive will get close to twelves or in 12's according to my source the guy still uses factory cams....maybe pi cams? but he says most of it is in the tune and the car set up, also a world champ will probly have 100X's better driving skills than me.......so I guess only time will tell. They told me that 6 tenths of a second came from the tune alone! could that be true?
11-15-2005, 01:34 AM
#3
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Navarre, FL
Posts: 3,689
RE: Some stuff to think about!
The reason for the swap is because you are going to already be tearing everything down for the new intake and cams, so why not throw on the better set of heads that flow better than the 96-98 heads. You can supercharge, just have to keep the boost low and make sure you got a tune that keeps it all under control
11-15-2005, 08:55 AM
#4
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location:
Posts: 26
RE: Some stuff to think about!
all i gota say is make sure you know what your doing when you do it and make sure oyu dont rush or yank on any cords.. i just swaped my old broken manifold for a PI one... its on the old heads.. but now my car isnt running right. its missfireing im not sure where to start. i think it might be bad spark plug wires im not sure..
and i was wondering what are you guys talkingabout when you say tune? does that have to do with the computer? and getting that reprogrammed? and i was wondering where do i get that done?
and i was wondering what are you guys talkingabout when you say tune? does that have to do with the computer? and getting that reprogrammed? and i was wondering where do i get that done?
11-15-2005, 01:22 PM
#5
1st Gear Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 133
RE: Some stuff to think about!
i just swaped my old broken manifold for a PI one... its on the old heads.. but now my car isnt running right. its missfireing im not sure where to start. i think it might be bad spark plug wires im not sure..
11-15-2005, 01:34 PM
#6
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location:
Posts: 752
RE: Some stuff to think about!
Well first off ya, the new intake flows much more air and will mess up the fuel to air ratio. Also check for leaks the car realy shouldnt missfire, but if it back fires a little then that is caused from the lean situation caused by more air. A tuner that can change the air fuel ratio may fix the problem, if not then you may have a leak somewhere.
As for the other responses thats great..................but if I manage to get my non pi in the twelves then I will know the pi swap isnt all its cracked up to be, still the 875$ is still way to high of a price in terms of performance per horse power compared to older ford aftermarket like world product roush heads for 5.0-5.8L fords they are a 40 horse bolt on and you can get that set up for 800$. All Im saying is that it doesnt take a metal giant to port heads and to sell ported factory heads for 1200-1600$ is insanity, what is even worse is that people are willing to pay that. That is bull! Im talking about the major companys that do this like powerheads, patriot and the likes............I can get new pi heads for 650$ for the pair......then I would port them now would you pay me 1200-1600$ por ported heads that I could also CNC..........NO!.....you wouldnt and why because it is just me.....some guy on the internet. But you may be more likely to buy them from patriot and power heads for an ungodly amount of money......now ask your self what make there work better than haveing a local machine shop cnc and port the heads. I could port the heads and then let my machine shop cnc them on the flow bench for less money and have the same product. All Im saying is that pi heads are looked at as some type of aftermarket pieces, and there not. Simply put non pi heads can even be ported to flow very close to the same as ported pi heads. The only real performace minded head for our cars is the SVO head. Wich are still a little pricey for there gains, but they do flow better than even pi heads. I guess realy what Im saying is the obvious...........we need a bigger aftermarket for our 4.6-5.4 mod motors. Out with the old in with the new I say. If someone realy wanted to kick it in the *** they should design a head that could flow like a SVO head or better and then make the head with several different combustion chamber sizes, so that people could have more options. Like more boost!, or a high reving high compression motor!, or a low compression 300hp motor that runs on 89 octain! What the hell..............It is realy just that simple all of us 4.6 guys dont have shizil for an aftermarket, and the aftermarket we have is over priced and doesnt cover near enough territory. WE need MORE!
As for the other responses thats great..................but if I manage to get my non pi in the twelves then I will know the pi swap isnt all its cracked up to be, still the 875$ is still way to high of a price in terms of performance per horse power compared to older ford aftermarket like world product roush heads for 5.0-5.8L fords they are a 40 horse bolt on and you can get that set up for 800$. All Im saying is that it doesnt take a metal giant to port heads and to sell ported factory heads for 1200-1600$ is insanity, what is even worse is that people are willing to pay that. That is bull! Im talking about the major companys that do this like powerheads, patriot and the likes............I can get new pi heads for 650$ for the pair......then I would port them now would you pay me 1200-1600$ por ported heads that I could also CNC..........NO!.....you wouldnt and why because it is just me.....some guy on the internet. But you may be more likely to buy them from patriot and power heads for an ungodly amount of money......now ask your self what make there work better than haveing a local machine shop cnc and port the heads. I could port the heads and then let my machine shop cnc them on the flow bench for less money and have the same product. All Im saying is that pi heads are looked at as some type of aftermarket pieces, and there not. Simply put non pi heads can even be ported to flow very close to the same as ported pi heads. The only real performace minded head for our cars is the SVO head. Wich are still a little pricey for there gains, but they do flow better than even pi heads. I guess realy what Im saying is the obvious...........we need a bigger aftermarket for our 4.6-5.4 mod motors. Out with the old in with the new I say. If someone realy wanted to kick it in the *** they should design a head that could flow like a SVO head or better and then make the head with several different combustion chamber sizes, so that people could have more options. Like more boost!, or a high reving high compression motor!, or a low compression 300hp motor that runs on 89 octain! What the hell..............It is realy just that simple all of us 4.6 guys dont have shizil for an aftermarket, and the aftermarket we have is over priced and doesnt cover near enough territory. WE need MORE!
11-15-2005, 01:49 PM
#7
Mustang Nazi
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Texas, baby
Posts: 13,444
RE: Some stuff to think about!
I applaud your efforts, but a couple of your comments have me scratching my head...Why would you CNC heads on a flow bench? Do you know what CNC is? I am not hating on you, but the reason the heads are that expensive is the amount of work and the cost of the equipment to do the work. Also, when you buy aftermarket heads, they have valves, springs, etc...minus cams. I too, am pissed at the aftermarket and their lack of enthusiasm for the 4.6. I mean when the '05's came out, the aftermarket was ready with superchargers, CAI's, etc, when it took years for the same when the 4.6 2V was released.
So in summary, again I am happy to see people go out on their own and research mods and alike before they spend their money. Just don't be too quick to down the tried and true results of many, on the word of very few.
So in summary, again I am happy to see people go out on their own and research mods and alike before they spend their money. Just don't be too quick to down the tried and true results of many, on the word of very few.
11-15-2005, 01:58 PM
#8
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,235
RE: Some stuff to think about!
Awesome research code! I was looking into the PI swap myself but idk if it's worth it...If you cannot supercharge because of the compression then why even do it? If you can swap out a PI motor for just a little more and supercharge then that should be the route to take. Another thing, awhile back I was looking into the Granitelli MAF for my car and had guys who have worked on stangs for years tell me not to do it, because a good tune will re-calibrate the stock MAF. And if you get an aftermarket MAF and try to tune, it'll throw off the tune and it'll take more extensive tuning to get the tune right. Is this true? I've just heard it from a few people and would like to know. But other than that, good research and hopfully it works out!!
-Bryan
-Bryan
11-15-2005, 02:04 PM
#9
Mustang Nazi
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Texas, baby
Posts: 13,444
RE: Some stuff to think about!
ORIGINAL: xx9gt6xx
Awesome research code! I was looking into the PI swap myself but idk if it's worth it...If you cannot supercharge because of the compression then why even do it? If you can swap out a PI motor for just a little more and supercharge then that should be the route to take. Another thing, awhile back I was looking into the Granitelli MAF for my car and had guys who have worked on stangs for years tell me not to do it, because a good tune will re-calibrate the stock MAF. And if you get an aftermarket MAF and try to tune, it'll throw off the tune and it'll take more extensive tuning to get the tune right. Is this true? I've just heard it from a few people and would like to know. But other than that, good research and hopfully it works out!!
-Bryan
Awesome research code! I was looking into the PI swap myself but idk if it's worth it...If you cannot supercharge because of the compression then why even do it? If you can swap out a PI motor for just a little more and supercharge then that should be the route to take. Another thing, awhile back I was looking into the Granitelli MAF for my car and had guys who have worked on stangs for years tell me not to do it, because a good tune will re-calibrate the stock MAF. And if you get an aftermarket MAF and try to tune, it'll throw off the tune and it'll take more extensive tuning to get the tune right. Is this true? I've just heard it from a few people and would like to know. But other than that, good research and hopfully it works out!!
-Bryan