Why did Ford go with the 4.6?
04-22-2008, 08:06 AM
#21
6th Gear Member
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RE: Why did Ford go with the 4.6?
ORIGINAL: jlw2387
Are you seriously saying a motor thats been around since 91 is gonna have better after market support than the 5.0 which has been around since 68 and is Fords most popular engine ever. Yeah the 4.6 has come along way in recent years, but if Ford went the LSx way and kept the 5.0L/5.8L, we'd be in a better position.
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Try making a5.0L make more than 500 WHP on the stock block/internals... and then after you buy an afteramarket 5.0L block (forget the internals)come tell me that a shortblock for a 4.6L is expensive.
To answer the OP's question, ford wanted a "Modular" system where they could build mulitple engines for multiple platforms with the same basic parts and castings/manfuacture procedure. To understand how big of an advantage this is you need to understand how a factory setup works.
The more parts you build, the cheaper they are to build, the better you can build them (over time it improves) and the faster you can build them. If you can use a engine or even engine family in more than one platform, you can see how many more parts you could make and how much cheaper/faster it could be.
Ford decided the best way to do this would be to build an engine that would share many similar componets over different setups/displacement, and decided that the 4.6/5.4 etc systems would best suit their needs.
BTW, I always find it funny that the main people usually complaining about how much easyer and cheaper it is to build a 5.0 only have bolton only 2v cars. I raced plenty of bolton only 5.0Ls with my bolton only 4.6L, and none of them were anywhere close. IMO the 4.6L even in built engine form would make more power than the 5.0L IF the aftermarket support for true aftermarket heads were there... unforutnatly they are not. Try making big power from a 5.0L on the stock (even ported etc)e7 heads....
ORIGINAL: jlw2387
Yeah but its was way easier to get power out of a 5.0 than a 4.6. Plus they dont **** out at 450rwhp. They both have their advantages, but unfortunately the 4.6L is more in the "economy, interchangeability" region.
ORIGINAL: 35thAnni99GT
I know. that blistering 225 hp from the 5.0 pushrod motor was unbelievable
I know. that blistering 225 hp from the 5.0 pushrod motor was unbelievable
To answer the OP's question, ford wanted a "Modular" system where they could build mulitple engines for multiple platforms with the same basic parts and castings/manfuacture procedure. To understand how big of an advantage this is you need to understand how a factory setup works.
The more parts you build, the cheaper they are to build, the better you can build them (over time it improves) and the faster you can build them. If you can use a engine or even engine family in more than one platform, you can see how many more parts you could make and how much cheaper/faster it could be.
Ford decided the best way to do this would be to build an engine that would share many similar componets over different setups/displacement, and decided that the 4.6/5.4 etc systems would best suit their needs.
BTW, I always find it funny that the main people usually complaining about how much easyer and cheaper it is to build a 5.0 only have bolton only 2v cars. I raced plenty of bolton only 5.0Ls with my bolton only 4.6L, and none of them were anywhere close. IMO the 4.6L even in built engine form would make more power than the 5.0L IF the aftermarket support for true aftermarket heads were there... unforutnatly they are not. Try making big power from a 5.0L on the stock (even ported etc)e7 heads....
The 4.6L support is obviously not there.... thats exactly what I said. IF the support was there with an acutal head solution and better intake support though the 4.6L would IMO be right up there performance wise with the 5.0L platform. Considering the 4.6L stock head (worked)applications we have seen, in stroked/bored form, are making 360-390 WHP in n/a form and well over 700 WHP in FI setups I think a true aftermarket head setup would make just as much as your average H/C/I/shortblock 5.0L setup.
04-22-2008, 09:39 AM
#22
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RE: Why did Ford go with the 4.6?
i think they did it bc of gas prices, out of out of the ls1 and lt1 we would bet them in the long run bc they wouldrun out of gas b4 we do lol we get the best mpg lol 24 city 27 highway
04-22-2008, 10:43 AM
#24
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RE: Why did Ford go with the 4.6?
ORIGINAL: ripped camel
Isn't the 5.0 "Cammer" motor modular? Why didn't Ford use that?
According to the books it puts out either 400hp or 500hp, I don't remember which one, but that would more than compete with the LSx motors!
Isn't the 5.0 "Cammer" motor modular? Why didn't Ford use that?
According to the books it puts out either 400hp or 500hp, I don't remember which one, but that would more than compete with the LSx motors!
04-22-2008, 11:10 AM
#25
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RE: Why did Ford go with the 4.6?
from what i understand the 5.0 cammer is a modular engine, but pull up the ford racing catalouge and check out the price. Isnt it something like 14k? just for 400 crank horses? try a built shortblock/ported 2V heads/cams and a power adder, with plenty of money left over to throw into suspension and drivetrain components and you'd smack around any stock platform stang with the 5.0 cammer in it.
I mean I'm sure its a beast of a motor, but you also gotta remember its a 4V, and its been like what? 15-20 years since the modular engines first came out right?
that time frame allowed ford and all the aftermarket shops to go over mod motors with a fine toothed comb and figure out what can be improved upon. You think ford or anyone else would have successfully known how to get 400 crank horse out of a mod motor in the early 90's? its called research and development. Its why 4.6s went from 220 hp in 96-98, to 260/305/310/390's from 99-04 and 300-500+ in current production.
Plus, we all know ford can build a mod motor to smack around LS series camaros. 2000 cobra R engine anyone?! 5.4l 4V (but i dont think it was the cammer) Made 350 horse I think, and could hold up against vettes in drag racing and on an open track. If you arent happy with your modular mustang, go buy a pushrod mustang or LSx F-body.You'll find every engine has its pitfalls....
I mean I'm sure its a beast of a motor, but you also gotta remember its a 4V, and its been like what? 15-20 years since the modular engines first came out right?
that time frame allowed ford and all the aftermarket shops to go over mod motors with a fine toothed comb and figure out what can be improved upon. You think ford or anyone else would have successfully known how to get 400 crank horse out of a mod motor in the early 90's? its called research and development. Its why 4.6s went from 220 hp in 96-98, to 260/305/310/390's from 99-04 and 300-500+ in current production.
Plus, we all know ford can build a mod motor to smack around LS series camaros. 2000 cobra R engine anyone?! 5.4l 4V (but i dont think it was the cammer) Made 350 horse I think, and could hold up against vettes in drag racing and on an open track. If you arent happy with your modular mustang, go buy a pushrod mustang or LSx F-body.You'll find every engine has its pitfalls....
04-22-2008, 11:31 AM
#26
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RE: Why did Ford go with the 4.6?
Sure the engine is 14k, but what I don't get is why they don't use that engine in mustangs. We all know damn well it doesn't cost them 14k! It probably doesn't even cost them half of that price. They should make all mustangs 4v 4.6 NA, and make Cobra's either the 5.0 4v or 5.4 4v.
04-22-2008, 11:43 AM
#28
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RE: Why did Ford go with the 4.6?
ORIGINAL: ripped camel
They should make all mustangs 4v 4.6 NA, and make Cobra's either the 5.0 4v or 5.4 4v.
They should make all mustangs 4v 4.6 NA, and make Cobra's either the 5.0 4v or 5.4 4v.
kinda off-topic rant: to be perfectly honest, i'm kinda getting sick of the billion different configurations of mustangs coming out... I think the market is being way over-flooded right now, between all of Fords, Ford Racings, Saleens, Roushes, Boss, Shelbys, Steedas etc etc etc. I swear i'm starting to see more mustangs on the road than civics and corollas. Kinda takes the bad-***-ness outta driving one when you pass a 70 year old woman in a sky blue 08 GT...
regardless, if the 4.6 modular platform is so weak, why are all the aftermarket manufacteres such as your saleens, roushes, steedas etc etc, coming out with their own versions of the 4.6 but beefed up?
04-22-2008, 11:47 AM
#29
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RE: Why did Ford go with the 4.6?
I still tend to lean towards what's been mentioned regarding the displacement/efficiency idea.. As was mentioned by 2000GT4.6, the mass production (which was seen with the 289/302/351/390) is the same thing as today's 4.6/5.4/5.8.. All interchangeable with most parts, and they only had to produce a huge mass of the same block..
But think about it, 4.6l = ~260hp 5.7l = 340hp 1.1l and 80hp separate them, but I guarantee that your friends aren't getting more than 25mpg with a light right foot...
Besides, Mustangs are still king in sales.. On top of that, doesn't the F-body come with an open diff?? Oh, and I think the sheer cost is enough to tip the scales...
JT
But think about it, 4.6l = ~260hp 5.7l = 340hp 1.1l and 80hp separate them, but I guarantee that your friends aren't getting more than 25mpg with a light right foot...
Besides, Mustangs are still king in sales.. On top of that, doesn't the F-body come with an open diff?? Oh, and I think the sheer cost is enough to tip the scales...
JT
04-22-2008, 12:58 PM
#30
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RE: Why did Ford go with the 4.6?
from what i heared 2009 will be the last year of the muscle car era. i thought they were full of it but look at chevy,dodge, and ford they are all bring out a new kind of muscle car. hoda is bring out the 09 crx and a new supra.