Car started a loud ping...afraid to let it run.
10-04-2010, 02:38 PM
#12
1st Gear Member
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 128
Well I tried to follow your advice today and just let it run and look at the pulleys but I could see nothing out of the ordinary. The noise is so loud there is no way to get closer to the source in order to determine where it's from simply because the sound is echoing off of everything. It honestly sounds like a jackhammer.
Here is a longer audio clip I took today...
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B5u...thkey=CMWEjq8O
I took both the idler pulleys off as well as the tensioner and they all feel good. Bearings are smooth with no play on the water pump, compressor and PS pump. I honestly do not know where else to look. I ran the engine again today without the belt, revving it to about 2000RPMs and there is no noise whatsoever.
What do you guys think?
This is my DD and I need to get her back on the road.
Here is a longer audio clip I took today...
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B5u...thkey=CMWEjq8O
I took both the idler pulleys off as well as the tensioner and they all feel good. Bearings are smooth with no play on the water pump, compressor and PS pump. I honestly do not know where else to look. I ran the engine again today without the belt, revving it to about 2000RPMs and there is no noise whatsoever.
What do you guys think?
This is my DD and I need to get her back on the road.
10-04-2010, 03:12 PM
#13
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
I am sorry, without being there and seeing it I do not know what to tell you.
I am assuming that the belt is in good condition--when it makes the noise is there any sign that the belt is not moving at the same rate as the pulleys?
Does the crank pulley appear to be turning true?
I am assuming that the belt is in good condition--when it makes the noise is there any sign that the belt is not moving at the same rate as the pulleys?
Does the crank pulley appear to be turning true?
10-04-2010, 08:32 PM
#15
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 1,909
damn dude. That sounds awful. could a valve be stuck open?? and the piston is just banging against it? Would that not make the lights dim? because it essentially puts a "load" on the motor because that valve is obviously gonna fight back against the piston... right?
is it possible for the rod to break from the base of the piston... and just be banging aginst the bottom of a froze piston?? whatever is banging sounds like it has a hollow area around it... piston chamber, oilpan/crank, head?
is it possible for the rod to break from the base of the piston... and just be banging aginst the bottom of a froze piston?? whatever is banging sounds like it has a hollow area around it... piston chamber, oilpan/crank, head?
10-04-2010, 09:16 PM
#16
damn dude. That sounds awful. could a valve be stuck open?? and the piston is just banging against it? Would that not make the lights dim? because it essentially puts a "load" on the motor because that valve is obviously gonna fight back against the piston... right?
is it possible for the rod to break from the base of the piston... and just be banging aginst the bottom of a froze piston?? whatever is banging sounds like it has a hollow area around it... piston chamber, oilpan/crank, head?
is it possible for the rod to break from the base of the piston... and just be banging aginst the bottom of a froze piston?? whatever is banging sounds like it has a hollow area around it... piston chamber, oilpan/crank, head?
10-04-2010, 09:47 PM
#17
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 128
Big update:
I had a friend come over tonight to tear into it with me (two heads are always better than one). Long story short, the starter is trying to engage while the engine is running. The starter power wire (white/pink) is getting a 12V signal while the engine is already running and causing this god-awful noise. Now the weird part about this is it only happens when the belt is on the car...without the belt the starter does not try to engage with the engine running. How the belt at all relates to this neither of us can figure out, but it happens this way 100% of the time. We switched the starter relay with a relay that was known to be good to no avail just to try to factor that out.
Another possible clue is whatever reads the chip in the head of the keys (PATS) quit working on me about 2 weeks ago...related or not I don't know.
I was under the impression that most of the starting system in these vehicles is mechanical, that is it doesn't run through the PCM before sending signal to the starter. The only aspects controlled by the PCM are the checks (vehicle in neutral, PATS...stuff like that) which could only disable the starter. If the PCM does have the ability to control the engagement of the starter maybe it is on its way out and sending false signals...? I don't really know, I'm just thinking out loud here.
I had a friend come over tonight to tear into it with me (two heads are always better than one). Long story short, the starter is trying to engage while the engine is running. The starter power wire (white/pink) is getting a 12V signal while the engine is already running and causing this god-awful noise. Now the weird part about this is it only happens when the belt is on the car...without the belt the starter does not try to engage with the engine running. How the belt at all relates to this neither of us can figure out, but it happens this way 100% of the time. We switched the starter relay with a relay that was known to be good to no avail just to try to factor that out.
Another possible clue is whatever reads the chip in the head of the keys (PATS) quit working on me about 2 weeks ago...related or not I don't know.
I was under the impression that most of the starting system in these vehicles is mechanical, that is it doesn't run through the PCM before sending signal to the starter. The only aspects controlled by the PCM are the checks (vehicle in neutral, PATS...stuff like that) which could only disable the starter. If the PCM does have the ability to control the engagement of the starter maybe it is on its way out and sending false signals...? I don't really know, I'm just thinking out loud here.
Last edited by 02dkbluegt; 10-04-2010 at 09:53 PM.
10-04-2010, 10:35 PM
#18
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 1,909
About his update, the starter is making that noise???
what happens if you take the power source away from the starter once the car is on?
10-04-2010, 10:45 PM
#19
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Florida
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If you take the power away from the starter while the engine is running the starter will disengage and the noise stops. The noise is from the starter gear grinding as it tries to engage itself after the engine has already started...I'm sorry I didn't make that clear in my last post.
The question is, why is the starter still trying to engage after the engine is already running and why does this not happen when the belt is off?
The question is, why is the starter still trying to engage after the engine is already running and why does this not happen when the belt is off?
Last edited by 02dkbluegt; 10-04-2010 at 10:48 PM.
10-04-2010, 10:49 PM
#20
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NC
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no its cool man. I might of not read it correctly.
So your conclusion is that your starter is getting +12 even when the key is not in the "START" position? I have no idea how you would go about diagnosing that problem...
Is it possible your switch is bad on the steering wheel? Possibly its getting "stuck" on?
You did say you are having problems with your PATS tho, but Is the starter controlled by the key on the "start" position, or by the computer, that gives the starter 12 volts when the key is turned to the start position? (that might not make any sense, and if not, sorry)
So your conclusion is that your starter is getting +12 even when the key is not in the "START" position? I have no idea how you would go about diagnosing that problem...
Is it possible your switch is bad on the steering wheel? Possibly its getting "stuck" on?
You did say you are having problems with your PATS tho, but Is the starter controlled by the key on the "start" position, or by the computer, that gives the starter 12 volts when the key is turned to the start position? (that might not make any sense, and if not, sorry)