2002 Mustang GT Vert Suspension Overhaul questions
12-30-2012, 02:14 PM
#11
I run mm flsfcs, strange 10 way adjustable shocks/struts, h&r ss springs, steeda bumpsteer, mm camber plates currently. I'm in the process of getting my panhard bar, tq arm, and lcas on right now. I'm most likely forgetting something, but i regret not building up the rear before putting on the kb.
12-30-2012, 03:03 PM
#12
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The issue I see very common, is the expense of going with bigger power often leaves no funds for the supporting mods 
. This leaves one looking to exercise that new found power and less than ideal means to keep in under good control. Suspension is a must, but the tires are absolute KEY to maintaining control of ones car and particularly with additional power.
I see such builds much like one who puts a new roof on the house, but fails to consider the shortcomings of the foundation.
Jazzer
. This leaves one looking to exercise that new found power and less than ideal means to keep in under good control. Suspension is a must, but the tires are absolute KEY to maintaining control of ones car and particularly with additional power. I see such builds much like one who puts a new roof on the house, but fails to consider the shortcomings of the foundation.
Jazzer
12-31-2012, 08:14 AM
#13
The issue with saying you have heard good things about Hotchkis so you want to try them, is the needs of the driver. Of which ones have you heard good things? Not trying to be a smart *** here, but there are specific designs that are less desirable for cornering, but are fine for those who run the strip and moderately DD his/her car. That is NOT to say that Hotchkis makes a bad LCA, but several of their control arms are flat lousy for cornering use. In fact, most of them are not only bad for cornering, but bad for the TB's of your car
The following would be GREAT for cornering use
:
The following would be GREAT for cornering use*:
The following would NOT be good for cornering use:
The issue here is the trade-off of improved cornering for noise. The spherical bearings you see in the two upper pictures are very beneficial in the corner, but transmit noise that the lower image does not. However, the lower image consisists of a bushing that will not allow free articulation of the rear axle and create additional binding over that of OEM. Binding is your enemy on the corners and one serious case of the "snap-steers" at the wrong time and you will never want them again.
I recommend you do LOTS of research on suspension mods to see EXACTLY what is involved and how far you want to take it. Take a peek at the Official Suspension guide for the jist of stuff and THEN get other opinions. Mine is certainly not the be-all end-all of them and there are PLENTY of others who are far more knowledgeable than I on such things
Jazzer
*except for those seeking very aggressive cornering and would go a different direction here.
The following would be GREAT for cornering use
:The following would be GREAT for cornering use*
:The following would NOT be good for cornering use
:The issue here is the trade-off of improved cornering for noise. The spherical bearings you see in the two upper pictures are very beneficial in the corner, but transmit noise that the lower image does not. However, the lower image consisists of a bushing that will not allow free articulation of the rear axle and create additional binding over that of OEM. Binding is your enemy on the corners and one serious case of the "snap-steers" at the wrong time and you will never want them again.
I recommend you do LOTS of research on suspension mods to see EXACTLY what is involved and how far you want to take it. Take a peek at the Official Suspension guide for the jist of stuff and THEN get other opinions. Mine is certainly not the be-all end-all of them and there are PLENTY of others who are far more knowledgeable than I on such things
Jazzer
*except for those seeking very aggressive cornering and would go a different direction here.
I can see that but not sure i even need that good of a control arm if i am just having a fun daily driver so not sure about insanely good cornering control arms since it isnt a autocross car! LOL
12-31-2012, 08:15 AM
#14
I run mm flsfcs, strange 10 way adjustable shocks/struts, h&r ss springs, steeda bumpsteer, mm camber plates currently. I'm in the process of getting my panhard bar, tq arm, and lcas on right now. I'm most likely forgetting something, but i regret not building up the rear before putting on the kb.
The issue I see very common, is the expense of going with bigger power often leaves no funds for the supporting mods . This leaves one looking to exercise that new found power and less than ideal means to keep in under good control. Suspension is a must, but the tires are absolute KEY to maintaining control of ones car and particularly with additional power.
I see such builds much like one who puts a new roof on the house, but fails to consider the shortcomings of the foundation.
Jazzer
. This leaves one looking to exercise that new found power and less than ideal means to keep in under good control. Suspension is a must, but the tires are absolute KEY to maintaining control of ones car and particularly with additional power. I see such builds much like one who puts a new roof on the house, but fails to consider the shortcomings of the foundation.
Jazzer
yeah that is why i want to build suspension and may even finish midpipe on exhaust and gears and get a daily beater and then drop kb on next year.
12-31-2012, 09:33 AM
#15
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This isn't about racing, it is about good mechanical function of the rear axle. The fundamental issue of the 4-link is the binding that occurs during NORMAL operation. This is an OEM designed flaw and can be reduced by the use of a spherical bearing in the LCA, such as that found in the UPR piece above.
Not only does the Hotchkins LCA not provide an ease to function, but makes it more difficult only adding ADDITIONAL bind to an already poor design. The spherical bearing (Heim joint) will give a bit more NVH, but returns with a better operating rear axle in return.
You can get whichever one you want, but the UPR is going to help your rear-axle function, where the Hotchkins will hurt it!
Jazzer
12-31-2012, 11:22 AM
#16
alright so something like these?
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-9...trol-arms.html
think they are the same ones your showed and they allow the axle to move all directions then? and would i really need upper control arms?
http://www.uprproducts.com/mustang-9...trol-arms.html
think they are the same ones your showed and they allow the axle to move all directions then? and would i really need upper control arms?
12-31-2012, 06:26 PM
#17
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Yes... those are the ones and will improve your cornering and general function of the rear axle suspension.
As for uppers, this depends on that ULTIMATE question again Philisophically speaking, I HATE the 4-link upper control arms, as they suck in general. BUT... they do serve a purpose, even if a poorly designed one.
For DD and moderate cornering, the OEM ones are fine.
For DD and moderate to more aggressive performance UPR Pro Series are great
For hardcore cornering, you go like Teh Kitteh and not run them at all!
The uppers is where the more serious issues of NVH come into play. ANYTHING but OEM will generate noise and a solid upper with poly bushings is a bind-o-matic addition to the 4-link (the two middle arms of the Hotchkis image above) and strongly recommend you avoid such an arm of a similar design. I wont get into all the reasons, but the Official Suspension guide gets into some good detail. You can do absolute WONDERS for your cornering/rear-grip via addressing these little babies, but downside is NVH. This is not an "end of the world" thing, but you MUST be OK with the loss of ride quality, if you want to push the limits of your car.
Jazzer
As for uppers, this depends on that ULTIMATE question again
Philisophically speaking, I HATE the 4-link upper control arms, as they suck in general. BUT... they do serve a purpose, even if a poorly designed one. For DD and moderate cornering, the OEM ones are fine.
For DD and moderate to more aggressive performance UPR Pro Series are great
For hardcore cornering, you go like Teh Kitteh and not run them at all!
The uppers is where the more serious issues of NVH come into play. ANYTHING but OEM will generate noise and a solid upper with poly bushings is a bind-o-matic addition to the 4-link (the two middle arms of the Hotchkis image above) and strongly recommend you avoid such an arm of a similar design. I wont get into all the reasons, but the Official Suspension guide gets into some good detail. You can do absolute WONDERS for your cornering/rear-grip via addressing these little babies, but downside is NVH. This is not an "end of the world" thing, but you MUST be OK with the loss of ride quality, if you want to push the limits of your car.
Jazzer
12-31-2012, 07:11 PM
#18
Yes... those are the ones and will improve your cornering and general function of the rear axle suspension.
As for uppers, this depends on that ULTIMATE question again Philisophically speaking, I HATE the 4-link upper control arms, as they suck in general. BUT... they do serve a purpose, even if a poorly designed one.
For DD and moderate cornering, the OEM ones are fine.
For DD and moderate to more aggressive performance UPR Pro Series are great
For hardcore cornering, you go like Teh Kitteh and not run them at all!
The uppers is where the more serious issues of NVH come into play. ANYTHING but OEM will generate noise and a solid upper with poly bushings is a bind-o-matic addition to the 4-link (the two middle arms of the Hotchkis image above) and strongly recommend you avoid such an arm of a similar design. I wont get into all the reasons, but the Official Suspension guide gets into some good detail. You can do absolute WONDERS for your cornering/rear-grip via addressing these little babies, but downside is NVH. This is not an "end of the world" thing, but you MUST be OK with the loss of ride quality, if you want to push the limits of your car.
Jazzer
As for uppers, this depends on that ULTIMATE question again
Philisophically speaking, I HATE the 4-link upper control arms, as they suck in general. BUT... they do serve a purpose, even if a poorly designed one. For DD and moderate cornering, the OEM ones are fine.
For DD and moderate to more aggressive performance UPR Pro Series are great
For hardcore cornering, you go like Teh Kitteh and not run them at all!
The uppers is where the more serious issues of NVH come into play. ANYTHING but OEM will generate noise and a solid upper with poly bushings is a bind-o-matic addition to the 4-link (the two middle arms of the Hotchkis image above) and strongly recommend you avoid such an arm of a similar design. I wont get into all the reasons, but the Official Suspension guide gets into some good detail. You can do absolute WONDERS for your cornering/rear-grip via addressing these little babies, but downside is NVH. This is not an "end of the world" thing, but you MUST be OK with the loss of ride quality, if you want to push the limits of your car.
Jazzer
ok cool i will try those ones i linked and not mess with upper control arms right now since im not trying to built a race car lol
ok so now i got on the list to buy
UPR LCA
Steeda Bumpsteer
Steeda X2 Ball Joints
Bilstiens HD Struts/Shocks
to go along with stuff already on car
MM CC plates
MM FLSFC
Eibach Pro Kit
jazzer any recommendations on ball joints, bumpsteer or struts/shocks?
12-31-2012, 08:29 PM
#19
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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I would not bother with ball joints, unless you need them anyway. The idea of 2x ball joints is to drop drop your "A" arms back down to level after lowering your ride (level being the optimum for cornering prowess). I am not sold on the Steeda 2x joints, but will be honest and say I pretty much don't know anything about them. The better way is to install drop spindles, but the good ones are a very pretty penny
Just go with the LCA's for now and see how she does. When you get an ide of how they perform, chime back in with your thoughts on them.
Jazzer
Just go with the LCA's for now and see how she does. When you get an ide of how they perform, chime back in with your thoughts on them.
Jazzer
01-01-2013, 07:29 AM
#20
I would not bother with ball joints, unless you need them anyway. The idea of 2x ball joints is to drop drop your "A" arms back down to level after lowering your ride (level being the optimum for cornering prowess). I am not sold on the Steeda 2x joints, but will be honest and say I pretty much don't know anything about them. The better way is to install drop spindles, but the good ones are a very pretty penny
Just go with the LCA's for now and see how she does. When you get an ide of how they perform, chime back in with your thoughts on them.
Jazzer
Just go with the LCA's for now and see how she does. When you get an ide of how they perform, chime back in with your thoughts on them.
Jazzer