Stroker Kits and Torque Converters
07-31-2006, 12:56 PM
#11
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Join Date: May 2006
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RE: Stroker Kits and Torque Converters
ORIGINAL:cekim
you are talking about a 600-800HP engine once all is said and done
you are talking about a 600-800HP engine once all is said and done
07-31-2006, 01:05 PM
#12
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 459
RE: Stroker Kits and Torque Converters
ORIGINAL: cekim
Just to make sure your mother has a say in this...
Going to all this trouble, you are talking about a 600-800HP engine once all is said and done - have you accounted for that with the rest of the drivetrain?
A built 4.6L can do 700HP with lots of boost too, so displacement and exotic stroke is not your only option... Before you just stroke as far as you possibly can - consider your end-goal and whether and/or how much is required. You don't want to do that if you don't need to...
ORIGINAL: LAK3RS
Thanks Cekim, All that Information really helped alot. I really appreciate it. So I should go ahead, while tearing into the engine to go for some ported heads and stuff, but could my engine after being Stroked be able to handle a SC as well???
Thanks Cekim, All that Information really helped alot. I really appreciate it. So I should go ahead, while tearing into the engine to go for some ported heads and stuff, but could my engine after being Stroked be able to handle a SC as well???
Just to make sure your mother has a say in this...
Going to all this trouble, you are talking about a 600-800HP engine once all is said and done - have you accounted for that with the rest of the drivetrain?
A built 4.6L can do 700HP with lots of boost too, so displacement and exotic stroke is not your only option... Before you just stroke as far as you possibly can - consider your end-goal and whether and/or how much is required. You don't want to do that if you don't need to...
07-31-2006, 01:09 PM
#13
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RE: Stroker Kits and Torque Converters
ORIGINAL: bl1nkage
How much of a pain would it be to drive a car at this point? Are we talking.. tolerable as a daily driver or strictly track car?
ORIGINAL:cekim
you are talking about a 600-800HP engine once all is said and done
you are talking about a 600-800HP engine once all is said and done
07-31-2006, 01:42 PM
#14
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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RE: Stroker Kits and Torque Converters
ORIGINAL: LAK3RS
Yeah Blinkage It needs to be fully street Legal and stuff, but I just like knowing I have that RAW American Muscle under the hood. But yeah I dont' know if I ever thanked you enough about the SLP's. I'm still loving them. I'm thinking of throwing on a catted X, or just cutting the cats, just to make it a LITTLE bit more loud.
ORIGINAL: bl1nkage
How much of a pain would it be to drive a car at this point? Are we talking.. tolerable as a daily driver or strictly track car?
ORIGINAL:cekim
you are talking about a 600-800HP engine once all is said and done
you are talking about a 600-800HP engine once all is said and done
I should point out that 550-600 is about what the Saleen "Extreme" is going to be...
So that is:
1. built bottom end
2. Saleen SC with ~3" pulley? details are sketchy
3. injectors/plugs/cold-air ("cold air" for the Saleen really just means bigger tube and a hole cut in the bottom of the stock box)
This is why it has been said many a time on this board (even by me a couple of times) that starting trying to build a N/A beast if all you want is 500-600RWHP is often the more expensive route... (and don't forget that what is good for N/A is often NOT good for SC).
If you go down the stroker+blower path and stop at 600HP:
a. did you need to stroke? Not really - but if it makes you happy - just be careful with the math!
b. very streetable - wild cams need not apply even without stroking.
07-31-2006, 02:34 PM
#15
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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RE: Stroker Kits and Torque Converters
strokin isnt as complicated as some these guys are making it. yeah, you need to find somene you can trust and has a great understanding of tearing down an engine and putting it together the RIGHT way. you get the cam wrong, and you lift the piston right out. bad day. and teh stroker kits from seanhylandmotorsports includes all the necessary parts you need to BEEF up the engine. there are a few corners that ford cut in production to reduce to cost of the engine, but that translates to anything over 450 hp to rear wheels is dangerous. weaker rods, weaker pistons, weaker piston rings that are higher up, etc. its a timeing thing, of WHEN you're going to reduce your engine to molten metal. strokin is a great way to find power without going with the supercharger. i believe whole-heartedly in a muscle car without forced induction. just remember, there's no REPLACEMENT for DISPLACEMENT. 
the 5.0L stroker from SHM should yield to 35-40% increase in power, SAFELY. which puts you in the same power as a s/c with medium conservative tune. but then you've also got a stronger engine, as you've replaced the parts that s/c blow when you add to much boost. kinda of like killing two birds right? more power, more strength. and less price...
the 5.0L stroker from SHM should yield to 35-40% increase in power, SAFELY. which puts you in the same power as a s/c with medium conservative tune. but then you've also got a stronger engine, as you've replaced the parts that s/c blow when you add to much boost. kinda of like killing two birds right? more power, more strength. and less price...
07-31-2006, 02:52 PM
#16
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Posts: 459
RE: Stroker Kits and Torque Converters
ORIGINAL: Andys06GT
strokin isnt as complicated as some these guys are making it. yeah, you need to find somene you can trust and has a great understanding of tearing down an engine and putting it together the RIGHT way. you get the cam wrong, and you lift the piston right out. bad day. and teh stroker kits from seanhylandmotorsports includes all the necessary parts you need to BEEF up the engine. there are a few corners that ford cut in production to reduce to cost of the engine, but that translates to anything over 450 hp to rear wheels is dangerous. weaker rods, weaker pistons, weaker piston rings that are higher up, etc. its a timeing thing, of WHEN you're going to reduce your engine to molten metal. strokin is a great way to find power without going with the supercharger. i believe whole-heartedly in a muscle car without forced induction. just remember, there's no REPLACEMENT for DISPLACEMENT. the 5.0L stroker from SHM should yield to 35-40% increase in power, SAFELY. which puts you in the same power as a s/c with medium conservative tune. but then you've also got a stronger engine, as you've replaced the parts that s/c blow when you add to much boost. kinda of like killing two birds right? more power, more strength. and less price...
strokin isnt as complicated as some these guys are making it. yeah, you need to find somene you can trust and has a great understanding of tearing down an engine and putting it together the RIGHT way. you get the cam wrong, and you lift the piston right out. bad day. and teh stroker kits from seanhylandmotorsports includes all the necessary parts you need to BEEF up the engine. there are a few corners that ford cut in production to reduce to cost of the engine, but that translates to anything over 450 hp to rear wheels is dangerous. weaker rods, weaker pistons, weaker piston rings that are higher up, etc. its a timeing thing, of WHEN you're going to reduce your engine to molten metal. strokin is a great way to find power without going with the supercharger. i believe whole-heartedly in a muscle car without forced induction. just remember, there's no REPLACEMENT for DISPLACEMENT.
the 5.0L stroker from SHM should yield to 35-40% increase in power, SAFELY. which puts you in the same power as a s/c with medium conservative tune. but then you've also got a stronger engine, as you've replaced the parts that s/c blow when you add to much boost. kinda of like killing two birds right? more power, more strength. and less price...
07-31-2006, 02:54 PM
#17
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Posts: 459
RE: Stroker Kits and Torque Converters
So Cekim, to actually get to where I want to be I would actually have to SC it. Man, I have a little bit more money to save up then If I want to SC, and go with Stroking it etc. And about how much do yall think it might run??? Of course I already have a place where I would get it done....HPP RACING in Lewisville Baby!!!
07-31-2006, 03:21 PM
#18
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RE: Stroker Kits and Torque Converters
ORIGINAL: LAK3RS
So Cekim, to actually get to where I want to be I would actually have to SC it.
So Cekim, to actually get to where I want to be I would actually have to SC it.
Costs of parts would work out to (EXTREMELY ROUGH PRICES):
~$3K for a short block (can be done for less if you have someone build up your block)
~$5K for a screw SC
~$1K-3K for a trans rebuild/replace with stonger parts
$? for other random parts (clutch you will need, flywheel/driveshaft are optional)
$? for installation - I can't answer that one, I do most everything short of tuning and machining myself...
If you did a stroked shortblock now with no other changes - very roughly you are saying:
281->322 = 11.4% increase in displacement (33 more CI)
If you get it right - then you can add that 11-12% to everything you do (heads/cams/cold air/headers etc...)
That is why I say it doen's matter all that much - particularly if you are looking for 550HP. "no replacement", blah, blah is a quote from people building Big-Blocks scoffing at us puny little small-block owners... 10% is 10% (i.e. not a lot)...
The upside would be that while you were saving up for the SC - you could build a 400HP+ motor and have lots of fun... with 400-450RWHP - you can leave the tranny as it is...
The downside, as I keep harping on, is that you can't push too hard for that 400HP or you will build an engine who's compression is too high to add boost later... That and heads/cams done right are NOT cheap...
As for "stroking isn't as complicated" - I think those of us throwing out caution flags are doing so becuause it is not bolting on a cold air kit!
It is major surgery on your car and if you screw it up, you have a very heavy paper-weight in your engine compartment that cost you $5K+.
Pulling out engines even when you do most of the work yourself, is not something you should do on a tight budget. It ALWAYS costs more than you think.
P.S. - the other downside to stroking is generally of little consequence, but your mileage goes down... This is why 4-bangers with turbos exist... when not in boost, they get MUCH better mileage. More displacement means more gas consumed at all engine speeds...
P.P.S - oops - you said auto... I plead ignorance as to where the auto breaks down in terms of HP
07-31-2006, 03:45 PM
#19
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 459
RE: Stroker Kits and Torque Converters
ORIGINAL: cekim
Short answer - YES - if you want 550HP, 322N/A "ain't gonna cut it" PERIOD...
Costs of parts would work out to (EXTREMELY ROUGH PRICES):
~$3K for a short block (can be done for less if you have someone build up your block)
~$5K for a screw SC
~$1K-3K for a trans rebuild/replace with stonger parts
$? for other random parts (clutch you will need, flywheel/driveshaft are optional)
$? for installation - I can't answer that one, I do most everything short of tuning and machining myself...
If you did a stroked shortblock now with no other changes - very roughly you are saying:
281->322 = 11.4% increase in displacement (33 more CI)
If you get it right - then you can add that 11-12% to everything you do (heads/cams/cold air/headers etc...)
That is why I say it doen's matter all that much - particularly if you are looking for 550HP. "no replacement", blah, blah is a quote from people building Big-Blocks scoffing at us puny little small-block owners... 10% is 10% (i.e. not a lot)...
The upside would be that while you were saving up for the SC - you could build a 400HP+ motor and have lots of fun... with 400-450RWHP - you can leave the tranny as it is...
The downside, as I keep harping on, is that you can't push too hard for that 400HP or you will build an engine who's compression is too high to add boost later... That and heads/cams done right are NOT cheap...
As for "stroking isn't as complicated" - I think those of us throwing out caution flags are doing so becuause it is not bolting on a cold air kit!
It is major surgery on your car and if you screw it up, you have a very heavy paper-weight in your engine compartment that cost you $5K+.
Pulling out engines even when you do most of the work yourself, is not something you should do on a tight budget. It ALWAYS costs more than you think.
P.S. - the other downside to stroking is generally of little consequence, but your mileage goes down... This is why 4-bangers with turbos exist... when not in boost, they get MUCH better mileage. More displacement means more gas consumed at all engine speeds...
P.P.S - oops - you said auto... I plead ignorance as to where the auto breaks down in terms of HP
ORIGINAL: LAK3RS
So Cekim, to actually get to where I want to be I would actually have to SC it.
So Cekim, to actually get to where I want to be I would actually have to SC it.
Costs of parts would work out to (EXTREMELY ROUGH PRICES):
~$3K for a short block (can be done for less if you have someone build up your block)
~$5K for a screw SC
~$1K-3K for a trans rebuild/replace with stonger parts
$? for other random parts (clutch you will need, flywheel/driveshaft are optional)
$? for installation - I can't answer that one, I do most everything short of tuning and machining myself...
If you did a stroked shortblock now with no other changes - very roughly you are saying:
281->322 = 11.4% increase in displacement (33 more CI)
If you get it right - then you can add that 11-12% to everything you do (heads/cams/cold air/headers etc...)
That is why I say it doen's matter all that much - particularly if you are looking for 550HP. "no replacement", blah, blah is a quote from people building Big-Blocks scoffing at us puny little small-block owners... 10% is 10% (i.e. not a lot)...
The upside would be that while you were saving up for the SC - you could build a 400HP+ motor and have lots of fun... with 400-450RWHP - you can leave the tranny as it is...
The downside, as I keep harping on, is that you can't push too hard for that 400HP or you will build an engine who's compression is too high to add boost later... That and heads/cams done right are NOT cheap...
As for "stroking isn't as complicated" - I think those of us throwing out caution flags are doing so becuause it is not bolting on a cold air kit!
It is major surgery on your car and if you screw it up, you have a very heavy paper-weight in your engine compartment that cost you $5K+.
Pulling out engines even when you do most of the work yourself, is not something you should do on a tight budget. It ALWAYS costs more than you think.
P.S. - the other downside to stroking is generally of little consequence, but your mileage goes down... This is why 4-bangers with turbos exist... when not in boost, they get MUCH better mileage. More displacement means more gas consumed at all engine speeds...
P.P.S - oops - you said auto... I plead ignorance as to where the auto breaks down in terms of HP
- LAK3RS
O Yeah So I could get a new Block and Stroke it?? and then with Cams and everything else included. But Leave room for a SC.
07-31-2006, 04:14 PM
#20
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Posts: 713
RE: Stroker Kits and Torque Converters
ORIGINAL: LAK3RS
Man!!!! Thats Exactly what I wanted to hear, Right there. Yeah I'll look into some Short Blocks and see how it goes from there. What about a Cobra Shortblock 5.2L???? Something Related to it. But man, you have been really helpful to me, I really mean it. Thanks
- LAK3RS
O Yeah So I could get a new Block and Stroke it?? and then with Cams and everything else included. But Leave room for a SC.
Man!!!! Thats Exactly what I wanted to hear, Right there. Yeah I'll look into some Short Blocks and see how it goes from there. What about a Cobra Shortblock 5.2L???? Something Related to it. But man, you have been really helpful to me, I really mean it. Thanks
- LAK3RS
O Yeah So I could get a new Block and Stroke it?? and then with Cams and everything else included. But Leave room for a SC.
For example - not an endorsement of this site - I cannot speak one way or the other about these guys - maybe someone else can chime in?
http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com
If you are looking for "cams and everything else included", then you want a "long block"
Glad I could help - take your time, be careful and ask lots of quetions - nothing you are doing is a small investment.
P.S about the Cobra - that is a 4V engine - it will fit mechanically (there is an example on the site I linked to above), but that is very different motor...