I need some advise and info
11-19-2007, 08:40 PM
#1
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Posts: 599
I need some advise and info
This isn't just another gear whine story...i'm afraid I may have more problems...It's long and I'm sorry.
I took my car to a reputable shop in SE Houston in July for a 4.10 gear install. I asked them before if they used the FRPP gear (several others had said they use Motive) and they said they used the FRPP. I guess I should have been more clear because they used the Motive (sold by Ford Racing) gears. That aside...here's where the pain starts.
1st visit to the shop: I dropped the car off at 9am for what they said would be a 3 hr install. At 3pm, I called just for a status update and they said it was about ready. I drove to the shop (30 miles) and as I arrived I saw the car leaving for a test drive. When they got back they said it was ready. I paid and left. On the drive home I noticed a whine on decelleration from 45mph down to 30mph. I called the shop to see what they thought and was told if it was still going on after 50 miles to come back.
2nd visit: I brought the car in at 9am again and at 4pm, I called and was told "it's ready". When I dropped it off, the owner said they have never had a gear whine. Moments later the owner told me that all 4.10 gears whine due to the amount of teeth and size of the gear. I mentioned the difference between the Ford gear and the motive (what they installed) and told them of the people I knew of with Motive gears that don't have whine. The Shop mgr told me that Motives were trash and it wasn't their fault. The installer told us when he first opened the gear, he thought it was a display peice as opposed to a gear. Later on, when I got to the shop, I asked what was done and they said they changed the oil. They had the car over 6 hours just to change the gear oil and they didn't call me once finished...that kind of annoyed me. They said to put 500 miles on it and see how it is afterwards. I put 800 on before the next visit.
3rd visit: I dropped the car off late in a day on a Thursday. They told me they thought the whine was tire noise. I explained that the noise goes away as soon as I put my foot on the throttle and if it was tire noise it would go on at certain speeds no matter if it was on the coast or pull side (i know my tire noise...i hear it plenty). They asked me for my old gear and pinion bearing (which I took back with me the 1st time). They said they wanted to see the pinion bearing. I had to make a separate trip for that. I called the following wednesday and they said it would be ready after 3pm. I picked it up and went for a test drive with the shop owner. The whine was still there (he was driving and from the passenger side the whine sounded different). He told me to put 500 miles on it and that they had put a new gear in. I told them I needed my stock gear. They gave me a pinion but I said I needed the ring gear too. They returned a ring and pinion in a box to me. I didn't check it. A few days later out of curiousity, I checked and it was an old 3.55 gear (not my stock 3.31). When I drove it home, the whine was still on the decel side and was louder than before. After 550 miles, I called back and said the whine was worse than before. The shop mgr told me a new gear was installed and I told him I needed to talk to the owner. He said he could take care of any issues I had. I told him I didn't think they put a new gear in and the reason the whine was worse was probably due to them adjusting a gear with over 800 miles on it. He said I needed to talk to the owner and the owenr wasn't available. I called several more times and then gave up. A few weeks later I called again and the owner said he was glad I called and that Ford had a TSB out on the pinion bearings. He wanted to get the car in and replace the gear and bearing.
4th visit: I left the car on a Tuesday and called them back the following Monday. They said the car would be ready at the end of the day, I picked it up on Tuesday. I drove the car and there was a slight whine on the throttle around 50mph but was barely audible. I didn't say anything because it was acceptable. 2 weeks later with 400 miles on the new gear the whine was getting worse. The whine was on the pull side from 30mph up to 75 and at 62mph, it drowned out my radio and exhaust. I called back and brought the car back with about 1000 miles on the gear. It took that long to get ahold of the owner and get the car in and for them to listen.
5th visit: I again was told that all 4.10 gears whine and it was probably my tires. We went for a test drive the the owner of the shop did agree the whine was clearly audible. He said it sounded like my tires. I left off the throttle and the whine stopped immediately. I told him tire noise is constant on pull or coast. He said the tire noise is more apparent on pull due to load. I told him he was wrong and went into detail how the tire noise is when it is present (tires were not currently making any noise). He told me all 4.10s whine because they are moving faster and have more teeth. I told him I've ridden in a car with 4.56s and was completely quiet. He told me 4.10s are different. He said he would not put another gear in the car. He agreed to change the oil and look for shavings in the oil. I had to buy the oil and he'd provide tx7. I came back the next day at 9:30am (they were busy the day before). They put the car on the lift and drained the oil. I checked with the mechanic and there were no shavings in the oil or pumpkin. Upon further checking, we noticed the gear was a 3.73. The owner told me the box must have been mislabled. That tells me they put a used gear in the car (the wrong ratio at that). He told the guy working on the rearend to put the oil in to see if that quiets it down. After a few minutes, they decided to put a new gear in without testing new oil on the 3.73. Once they had the pumpkin empty, the owner decided to check the inside pinion bearing. He knocked it out (in the front of the pumpkin towards the driveshaft). The bearing was worn down and the track was burning up. He replaced that. I asked what could cause they and he couldn't tell me. Once they had it all back together the shop mgr took it for a test drive and then came to pick up the owner...another test drive ensued. They said it was still whining but wasn't that bad. The car now whines on decel from 50 down to 35 (loudest at 45) and on accel from 53 up to 71(loudes at 65).
At this point I'm tired, frustated, and depressed about this whole thing. I haven't been able to enjoy the car since July, haven't been to the track since then. I've been without my car for over 2 weeks due to the shop time, the gear still isn't right, I've had to take off work several times to get it in/pick it up. I am going to put some miles on the car and see how it holds up. I wiill probably track it after the break-in period. After several requests, they do not have my stock gear to give me back. I'm guessing they put it in another car so I can't even go back to stock. They said they could put a 3.31 in there but it wouldn't be the one that originally came out of my car.
I will probably take it somewhere and have the rearend looked over thoroughly just to make sure there are no underlying problems. I'll probably settle with a 3.55 or 3.73 gear if that as long as it's quiet. At this point, I'm worried about burning up bearings.
What would cause the inside pinion bearing to burn up??
At this point, this experience has ruined modding this car for me. I won't be doing anything else to the car. I had plans but they won't be carried out. The first time I've ever taken any car in for aftermarket work and this is what happens...sickening. I've never experienced worse customer service and been blatently lied to by someone who is in the service industry.[/align][/align]Thanks. [/align]
I took my car to a reputable shop in SE Houston in July for a 4.10 gear install. I asked them before if they used the FRPP gear (several others had said they use Motive) and they said they used the FRPP. I guess I should have been more clear because they used the Motive (sold by Ford Racing) gears. That aside...here's where the pain starts.
1st visit to the shop: I dropped the car off at 9am for what they said would be a 3 hr install. At 3pm, I called just for a status update and they said it was about ready. I drove to the shop (30 miles) and as I arrived I saw the car leaving for a test drive. When they got back they said it was ready. I paid and left. On the drive home I noticed a whine on decelleration from 45mph down to 30mph. I called the shop to see what they thought and was told if it was still going on after 50 miles to come back.
2nd visit: I brought the car in at 9am again and at 4pm, I called and was told "it's ready". When I dropped it off, the owner said they have never had a gear whine. Moments later the owner told me that all 4.10 gears whine due to the amount of teeth and size of the gear. I mentioned the difference between the Ford gear and the motive (what they installed) and told them of the people I knew of with Motive gears that don't have whine. The Shop mgr told me that Motives were trash and it wasn't their fault. The installer told us when he first opened the gear, he thought it was a display peice as opposed to a gear. Later on, when I got to the shop, I asked what was done and they said they changed the oil. They had the car over 6 hours just to change the gear oil and they didn't call me once finished...that kind of annoyed me. They said to put 500 miles on it and see how it is afterwards. I put 800 on before the next visit.
3rd visit: I dropped the car off late in a day on a Thursday. They told me they thought the whine was tire noise. I explained that the noise goes away as soon as I put my foot on the throttle and if it was tire noise it would go on at certain speeds no matter if it was on the coast or pull side (i know my tire noise...i hear it plenty). They asked me for my old gear and pinion bearing (which I took back with me the 1st time). They said they wanted to see the pinion bearing. I had to make a separate trip for that. I called the following wednesday and they said it would be ready after 3pm. I picked it up and went for a test drive with the shop owner. The whine was still there (he was driving and from the passenger side the whine sounded different). He told me to put 500 miles on it and that they had put a new gear in. I told them I needed my stock gear. They gave me a pinion but I said I needed the ring gear too. They returned a ring and pinion in a box to me. I didn't check it. A few days later out of curiousity, I checked and it was an old 3.55 gear (not my stock 3.31). When I drove it home, the whine was still on the decel side and was louder than before. After 550 miles, I called back and said the whine was worse than before. The shop mgr told me a new gear was installed and I told him I needed to talk to the owner. He said he could take care of any issues I had. I told him I didn't think they put a new gear in and the reason the whine was worse was probably due to them adjusting a gear with over 800 miles on it. He said I needed to talk to the owner and the owenr wasn't available. I called several more times and then gave up. A few weeks later I called again and the owner said he was glad I called and that Ford had a TSB out on the pinion bearings. He wanted to get the car in and replace the gear and bearing.
4th visit: I left the car on a Tuesday and called them back the following Monday. They said the car would be ready at the end of the day, I picked it up on Tuesday. I drove the car and there was a slight whine on the throttle around 50mph but was barely audible. I didn't say anything because it was acceptable. 2 weeks later with 400 miles on the new gear the whine was getting worse. The whine was on the pull side from 30mph up to 75 and at 62mph, it drowned out my radio and exhaust. I called back and brought the car back with about 1000 miles on the gear. It took that long to get ahold of the owner and get the car in and for them to listen.
5th visit: I again was told that all 4.10 gears whine and it was probably my tires. We went for a test drive the the owner of the shop did agree the whine was clearly audible. He said it sounded like my tires. I left off the throttle and the whine stopped immediately. I told him tire noise is constant on pull or coast. He said the tire noise is more apparent on pull due to load. I told him he was wrong and went into detail how the tire noise is when it is present (tires were not currently making any noise). He told me all 4.10s whine because they are moving faster and have more teeth. I told him I've ridden in a car with 4.56s and was completely quiet. He told me 4.10s are different. He said he would not put another gear in the car. He agreed to change the oil and look for shavings in the oil. I had to buy the oil and he'd provide tx7. I came back the next day at 9:30am (they were busy the day before). They put the car on the lift and drained the oil. I checked with the mechanic and there were no shavings in the oil or pumpkin. Upon further checking, we noticed the gear was a 3.73. The owner told me the box must have been mislabled. That tells me they put a used gear in the car (the wrong ratio at that). He told the guy working on the rearend to put the oil in to see if that quiets it down. After a few minutes, they decided to put a new gear in without testing new oil on the 3.73. Once they had the pumpkin empty, the owner decided to check the inside pinion bearing. He knocked it out (in the front of the pumpkin towards the driveshaft). The bearing was worn down and the track was burning up. He replaced that. I asked what could cause they and he couldn't tell me. Once they had it all back together the shop mgr took it for a test drive and then came to pick up the owner...another test drive ensued. They said it was still whining but wasn't that bad. The car now whines on decel from 50 down to 35 (loudest at 45) and on accel from 53 up to 71(loudes at 65).
At this point I'm tired, frustated, and depressed about this whole thing. I haven't been able to enjoy the car since July, haven't been to the track since then. I've been without my car for over 2 weeks due to the shop time, the gear still isn't right, I've had to take off work several times to get it in/pick it up. I am going to put some miles on the car and see how it holds up. I wiill probably track it after the break-in period. After several requests, they do not have my stock gear to give me back. I'm guessing they put it in another car so I can't even go back to stock. They said they could put a 3.31 in there but it wouldn't be the one that originally came out of my car.
I will probably take it somewhere and have the rearend looked over thoroughly just to make sure there are no underlying problems. I'll probably settle with a 3.55 or 3.73 gear if that as long as it's quiet. At this point, I'm worried about burning up bearings.
What would cause the inside pinion bearing to burn up??
At this point, this experience has ruined modding this car for me. I won't be doing anything else to the car. I had plans but they won't be carried out. The first time I've ever taken any car in for aftermarket work and this is what happens...sickening. I've never experienced worse customer service and been blatently lied to by someone who is in the service industry.[/align][/align]Thanks. [/align]
11-19-2007, 08:57 PM
#2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 21
RE: I need some advise and info
Sorry about you luck with that shop. At this pointI would take it back to another shop or even the dealer and have them look it over and document there findings and take it back to the original shop and try to get them to pay for it threaten legal action you paid for a service done right and you should be intilted to it. I am just guessing between trying to put used gears in and not knowing how to properly set them and how poor they treated you the have some ****ty business practices. File a report with the better buiness bureau.
11-19-2007, 09:01 PM
#3
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Posts: 599
RE: I need some advise and info
ORIGINAL: blownperformance
Sorry about you luck with that shop. At this pointI would take it back to another shop or even the dealer and have them look it over and document there findings and take it back to the original shop and try to get them to pay for it threaten legal action you paid for a service done right and you should be intilted to it. I am just guessing between trying to put used gears in and not knowing how to properly set them and how poor they treated you the have some ****ty business practices. File a report with the better buiness bureau.
Sorry about you luck with that shop. At this pointI would take it back to another shop or even the dealer and have them look it over and document there findings and take it back to the original shop and try to get them to pay for it threaten legal action you paid for a service done right and you should be intilted to it. I am just guessing between trying to put used gears in and not knowing how to properly set them and how poor they treated you the have some ****ty business practices. File a report with the better buiness bureau.
11-19-2007, 09:39 PM
#4
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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Posts: 72
RE: I need some advise and info
Sorry to hear about your problems with the gear. Where are you located? These 8.8 rearends are sensitive to pinion depth and pre load on the pinion bearings.Me and a friend installed my gears, we had the pinion depth off by .004 at first and theywhined like crazy. I tore the rearend down again and put the factory pinion shim back in .029. That madeall of the difference in the world. I drove the car for 1000 miles and it started to whine slightly. I pulled car back in the shop and tightened pinion nut 1/8 turn and the whine was gone. You have to be careful and not overtighten the pinion or you could crush the crushsleave to much. This can lock the pinion down ansd make it very hard to turn and cause bearing failure. It may not take too much adjustment to get the whine out of the gears. Do you know if they used factory shims on the pinion and the carrier. That is the best starting point. My car still has all the factory shims on the carrier and on the pinion. That gave a backlash of .011 and a perfect pattern. It could be that the preload on the pinion bearing is a little loose. I hope you get the whine out of the gears. I would get it looked at pretty soon before putting too many miles on the gearset.
11-19-2007, 09:44 PM
#5
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RE: I need some advise and info
At this point, I have no idea what in the rearend is stock and what isn't having to do with the gearset. As of Saturday, I had some used 3.73 in there without knowing it. They never made any adjustments after knowing the gear was whining. I can't trust the shop any more so bringing it back to them for adjustment is not an option.
I live in Houston, TX.
I live in Houston, TX.
11-19-2007, 09:46 PM
#6
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RE: I need some advise and info
Oh yeah, and the shop lost my stock gear and pinion bearing so that's out of the question. I had the stock gear with bearing still on it before (paid extra for new bearing) but they requested it back on the 3rd attempt to fix...it was then when they "lost" the gear. I think they used my stock 3.31 on someone else's car.
11-19-2007, 11:48 PM
#7
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RE: I need some advise and info
Put your stock LCAs on and the whine will go away......I was doing some experimenting with control arms, pinion angleand such....I noticed the whine went away with stock LCAs/UCA. I put back my J&M LCAs (poly/poly ends)on the car and the whine showed back up. Im gonna dynamat my trunk to help quiet down the interior. My experience has told me all 4.10s whine to a certain degree(thats all I ran on my Foxbody, but it was barely audible). I think it has to do with the mounting points on the car/rear end and that the springs are mounted directly on the rear now vs. the control arms of older mustangs.....it just all adds up to more noise (NVH)...... Just my 2 cents.....
11-19-2007, 11:54 PM
#8
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Posts: 599
RE: I need some advise and info
ORIGINAL: FREAKO
Put your stock LCAs on and the whine will go away......I was doing some experimenting with control arms, pinion angleand such....I noticed the whine went away with stock LCAs/UCA. I put back my J&M LCAs (poly/poly ends)on the car and the whine showed back up. Im gonna dynamat my trunk to help quiet down the interior. My experience has told me all 4.10s whine to a certain degree(thats all I ran on my Foxbody, but it was barely audible). I think it has to do with the mounting points on the car/rear end and that the springs are mounted directly on the rear now vs. the control arms of older mustangs.....it just all adds up to more noise (NVH)...... Just my 2 cents.....
Put your stock LCAs on and the whine will go away......I was doing some experimenting with control arms, pinion angleand such....I noticed the whine went away with stock LCAs/UCA. I put back my J&M LCAs (poly/poly ends)on the car and the whine showed back up. Im gonna dynamat my trunk to help quiet down the interior. My experience has told me all 4.10s whine to a certain degree(thats all I ran on my Foxbody, but it was barely audible). I think it has to do with the mounting points on the car/rear end and that the springs are mounted directly on the rear now vs. the control arms of older mustangs.....it just all adds up to more noise (NVH)...... Just my 2 cents.....
11-20-2007, 03:32 PM
#10
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Posts: 888
RE: I need some advise and info
my supercahrger whines..lol jk, sorry about that, it happens, happened to me before multiple times, file a report and try to get some lost money bak, and continue to modf ur car, u lost love for it for now, but u will want to continue on down the road..