Aftermarket cam durability, and other secondary questions
02-24-2011, 02:27 PM
#11
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 36
Thanks for the input.
That's true about gas milage, if I was worried about that I'd be installing hypermiling parts, etc.
I noticed today when it died at idle the A/F ratio was hunting a little.
I'm now thinking the problem is related to my PCV issues on my other thread. I de-pinched/re-rounded my dipstick tube and tried switching back to Edelbrock's original PCV routing (I'd rather have a dipstick blow out than blow out seals)...I hooked the passenger PCV vent back up to the tap before the throttle body in an attmpt to create a crankcase vacuum under boost. It was used to the unmetered air created by a passenger side breather, and with that extra air no longer there, it riches out and dies when coming back to idle. I'm going to disconnect the battery for a couple hours tonight and re-load the tune, see if I can speed up the re-learning process.
That's true about gas milage, if I was worried about that I'd be installing hypermiling parts, etc.
I noticed today when it died at idle the A/F ratio was hunting a little.
I'm now thinking the problem is related to my PCV issues on my other thread. I de-pinched/re-rounded my dipstick tube and tried switching back to Edelbrock's original PCV routing (I'd rather have a dipstick blow out than blow out seals)...I hooked the passenger PCV vent back up to the tap before the throttle body in an attmpt to create a crankcase vacuum under boost. It was used to the unmetered air created by a passenger side breather, and with that extra air no longer there, it riches out and dies when coming back to idle. I'm going to disconnect the battery for a couple hours tonight and re-load the tune, see if I can speed up the re-learning process.
02-24-2011, 06:32 PM
#12
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 4,552
The AF on your wideband won't show you the issue at idle. Your car idle from pig rich to super lean. It's going to have more to do with dashpot adjustment, timing and mass air counts. I predict hooking the vacuum lines back how they were won't make a difference. Very possible it cure it but doubt it.
Tuning aftermarket cams on the S197s is an art form. Lots try, most fail.
Tuning aftermarket cams on the S197s is an art form. Lots try, most fail.
02-28-2011, 02:21 PM
#13
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 36
I re-connected the PCV system back to how Edelbrock envisioned, disconnected the battery over night and reinstalled the tune. It helped a little.
It still just randomly does the 'I don't wanna idle' thing (most of the time it's dead steady at 1000rpm). A couple times it didn't want to restart for a minute or so. I decided to look at timing on the aeroforce gauge when it does this, it retards down to 9* all the way down to -7*.
If it doesn't straighten out this week, I'll call them up to see what they can do.
It still just randomly does the 'I don't wanna idle' thing (most of the time it's dead steady at 1000rpm). A couple times it didn't want to restart for a minute or so. I decided to look at timing on the aeroforce gauge when it does this, it retards down to 9* all the way down to -7*.
If it doesn't straighten out this week, I'll call them up to see what they can do.
03-01-2011, 09:43 AM
#15
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 36
Brenspeed are the only people to touch the tune so far. I don't know of anyone in the area who I trust and is able to do a dyno tune.
Last resort, I'll visit family in Vegas when it warms up and have Shelby dyno tune it (they have a speed shop now).
Last resort, I'll visit family in Vegas when it warms up and have Shelby dyno tune it (they have a speed shop now).
03-08-2011, 04:18 PM
#16
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 36
I think this has turned into a vacuum issue in the driver's side PCV hose.
Fixed it and it ran differently when I first started it up. It died about 2 more times (re-learning) and is running very well now. I'll reserve the perfect rating until after the road trip next week.
If it really is the vacuum leak that caused the idle issues, I guess the Detroit Rockers are more succeptible to vacuum fluctuations than stock cams at idle. No biggie, vacuum leaks will probably also cause a snowball effect in the ECU, leading to the lower fuel economy and power. I'll know more after the 600 mile test drive next week.
Fixed it and it ran differently when I first started it up. It died about 2 more times (re-learning) and is running very well now. I'll reserve the perfect rating until after the road trip next week.
If it really is the vacuum leak that caused the idle issues, I guess the Detroit Rockers are more succeptible to vacuum fluctuations than stock cams at idle. No biggie, vacuum leaks will probably also cause a snowball effect in the ECU, leading to the lower fuel economy and power. I'll know more after the 600 mile test drive next week.
03-20-2011, 11:05 AM
#17
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 38
Hey Throck, how did your trip go? I'm considering cams/lt headers etc but mines a DD so I need to be sure that reliability isn't sacrificed for fun. Just wanted to know if all's well. Other thing is, I don't have the know how or tools to do this myself so I'd need to hire a shop. Finding one with a good rep is harder than I thought. I gotta say I'm really impressed with anyone that can do this $hit themselves. I pretty much stick to doing my own oil/brakes, or swapping out axle back exhaust. Great thread. thanks
03-21-2011, 11:21 AM
#18
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 36
I put 1000 miles on over the weekend with no issues other than it had some idle issues again...I raised the idle to 950rpm and it idled perfectly but a little of the lope went away. I dropped it back down to 900rpm and it's running perfectly.
MPG used to be 29-30 w/e-force (not typical?), now it's down to 20-21, which is about where I've heard it usually is.
As pointed out, the power increase isn't what some people expect. But I also have the 91 octane tune and a couple issues (idle) the computer was trying to sort out at dyno time. The way I see it, it has plenty of power as it goes sideways in 2nd gear at lower altitudes.
Headers were a real pain to install, cams were a lot easier than I thought they would be. I think it just boils down to how competent you feel about doing the work yourself. Maybe just find a friend who's automotive savvy to stand next to you and help you out.
With headers, there's not a lot you can break. Just use a lift/be safe so you don't drop the car on yourself if working in the garage, and don't cross thread the bolts. Took me 9.5 hours with no breaks. Be prepared to get better mufflers.
With cams, if you don't have good situational awareness things can go wrong. I had a guy standing next to me to double check everything I did while installing the cams. You can rent the tools for about $70 from a couple places.
MPG used to be 29-30 w/e-force (not typical?), now it's down to 20-21, which is about where I've heard it usually is.
As pointed out, the power increase isn't what some people expect. But I also have the 91 octane tune and a couple issues (idle) the computer was trying to sort out at dyno time. The way I see it, it has plenty of power as it goes sideways in 2nd gear at lower altitudes.
Headers were a real pain to install, cams were a lot easier than I thought they would be. I think it just boils down to how competent you feel about doing the work yourself. Maybe just find a friend who's automotive savvy to stand next to you and help you out.
With headers, there's not a lot you can break. Just use a lift/be safe so you don't drop the car on yourself if working in the garage, and don't cross thread the bolts. Took me 9.5 hours with no breaks. Be prepared to get better mufflers.
With cams, if you don't have good situational awareness things can go wrong. I had a guy standing next to me to double check everything I did while installing the cams. You can rent the tools for about $70 from a couple places.
03-21-2011, 12:24 PM
#19
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maui
Posts: 4,752
Very good thread Throck. Glad you got everything in. Headers are the biggest bitch install there is. I think installing my m90 was less painful! LOL Just like you, after LT and cam install my car was unbearable loud. I swapped in some flowmasters and pypes m80s as resonators. Huge difference.
10-01-2011, 06:25 PM
#20
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 36
Found some information I wish I would have seen earlier...just in case others haven't seen it.
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/f...acement-41735/
This is a class in itselft. But the main points I picked out are:
1. The blower governs the amount of air/fuel flowing into the cylinder (at WOT)
2. Heads/cams/headers/more CID don't help pull more air into the cylinder, like on a N/A engine.
3. Heads/cams/headers/more CID make it easier for the blower to push more air into the cylinder, freeing up parasitic losses caused by the blower. This is why the most HP you can get with these additions approaches the power required to turn the blower, and don't give the dramatic gains of a N/A engine.
4. If everything is already flowing efficiently, the only way to make more power is to increase blower speed or size.
This is why most things I've read says if your stock cam is already flowing 300-400 hp, leave it. More duration won't help, or could hurt by blowing boost out the exhaust as unburnt gas.
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/f...acement-41735/
This is a class in itselft. But the main points I picked out are:
1. The blower governs the amount of air/fuel flowing into the cylinder (at WOT)
2. Heads/cams/headers/more CID don't help pull more air into the cylinder, like on a N/A engine.
3. Heads/cams/headers/more CID make it easier for the blower to push more air into the cylinder, freeing up parasitic losses caused by the blower. This is why the most HP you can get with these additions approaches the power required to turn the blower, and don't give the dramatic gains of a N/A engine.
4. If everything is already flowing efficiently, the only way to make more power is to increase blower speed or size.
This is why most things I've read says if your stock cam is already flowing 300-400 hp, leave it. More duration won't help, or could hurt by blowing boost out the exhaust as unburnt gas.