I KEEP READING THIS IN MAGAZINE'S...I NEED FACTS
05-15-2006, 07:23 PM
#11
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RE: I KEEP READING THIS IN MAGAZINE'S...I NEED FACTS
All I know is that Tweecer lists "change injector size" as one of the parameters
it will change in the computer.
sounds like the computer IS told what size injectors are out there.
Kennebell also has this to say changing MAF and injectors
" Changing or upgrading to a larger mass air flow meter and larger injectors requires a new chip or EEC to maintain driveability and to prevent "over advancing" of ignition timing and the resultant detonation under load conditions. Instead of incorporating a chip to properly calibrate fuel spark and load, the larger meters we've seen only lower the meter output voltage to the EEC to compensate for the larger injectors. Although this voltage change may "fool" the EEC at WOT (wide open throttle) and "pegged" load, it also, unfortunately, adversely affects the other LOAD, fuel and spark tables as they also see this lower "phony" voltage as an indicator of LESS air flow. So thinking there is LESS air flow than there really is under high load conditions, the meter signals the EEC to advance the timing and lean out the mixture. Check out the "load table" and note how at 2500 RPM and WOT load should be .5 and 29° of advance, but instead it is .3 and 40° because of the phony voltage signals. "
so YES the computer should be told about MAF adn injector changes and anything
else is cheating and not really working the way its supposed to.
it will change in the computer.
sounds like the computer IS told what size injectors are out there.
Kennebell also has this to say changing MAF and injectors
" Changing or upgrading to a larger mass air flow meter and larger injectors requires a new chip or EEC to maintain driveability and to prevent "over advancing" of ignition timing and the resultant detonation under load conditions. Instead of incorporating a chip to properly calibrate fuel spark and load, the larger meters we've seen only lower the meter output voltage to the EEC to compensate for the larger injectors. Although this voltage change may "fool" the EEC at WOT (wide open throttle) and "pegged" load, it also, unfortunately, adversely affects the other LOAD, fuel and spark tables as they also see this lower "phony" voltage as an indicator of LESS air flow. So thinking there is LESS air flow than there really is under high load conditions, the meter signals the EEC to advance the timing and lean out the mixture. Check out the "load table" and note how at 2500 RPM and WOT load should be .5 and 29° of advance, but instead it is .3 and 40° because of the phony voltage signals. "
so YES the computer should be told about MAF adn injector changes and anything
else is cheating and not really working the way its supposed to.
05-15-2006, 07:30 PM
#12
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RE: I KEEP READING THIS IN MAGAZINE'S...I NEED FACTS
true^^^ i was going to get to that...diablo did tell me my table needs to be changed due to my new cam and timing which is 18*...*8 globaly.....which in fact needs to be altered differantly.across the board.
05-15-2006, 07:32 PM
#13
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RE: I KEEP READING THIS IN MAGAZINE'S...I NEED FACTS
A calibrated MAF for xx# injectors is an "ECM fooling device", what they do is they lower the MAF signal curve to "fool" the ECM into adjusting a smaller injector pulse width signal....based on the 19# injectors load tables in the ECM software. Check the following MAF signal curves between and OEM MAF, and the one of a MAF calibrated for 30# injectors.....on the rev limiter.....you need a chip.......or get it "Tweeced" out 
.....
.....
05-15-2006, 07:40 PM
#15
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RE: I KEEP READING THIS IN MAGAZINE'S...I NEED FACTS
So where are we supposed to get an MAF sensor thats not sending false info?
Kennebell says to use a Lightning 90mm since its OEM, but thats for 42lbs injectors.
Where are we supposed to buy an MAF that will work right and either comes with a chip
or gives you the MAF tables to order one, and doesnt send out reduced voltages?
Kennebell says to use a Lightning 90mm since its OEM, but thats for 42lbs injectors.
Where are we supposed to buy an MAF that will work right and either comes with a chip
or gives you the MAF tables to order one, and doesnt send out reduced voltages?
ORIGINAL: Joel5.0
A calibrated MAF for xx# injectors is an "ECM fooling device", what they do is they lower the MAF signal curve to "fool" the ECM into adjusting a smaller injector pulse width signal....based on the 19# injectors load tables in the ECM software. Check the following MAF signal curves between and OEM MAF, and the one of a MAF calibrated for 30# injectors.....on the rev limiter.....you need a chip.......or get it "Tweeced" out.....
A calibrated MAF for xx# injectors is an "ECM fooling device", what they do is they lower the MAF signal curve to "fool" the ECM into adjusting a smaller injector pulse width signal....based on the 19# injectors load tables in the ECM software. Check the following MAF signal curves between and OEM MAF, and the one of a MAF calibrated for 30# injectors.....on the rev limiter.....you need a chip.......or get it "Tweeced" out
.....
05-15-2006, 07:51 PM
#17
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RE: I KEEP READING THIS IN MAGAZINE'S...I NEED FACTS
ORIGINAL: r.barn
So where are we supposed to get an MAF sensor thats not sending false info?
Kennebell says to use a Lightning 90mm since its OEM, but thats for 42lbs injectors.
Where are we supposed to buy an MAF that will work right and either comes with a chip
or gives you the MAF tables to order one, and doesnt send out reduced voltages?
So where are we supposed to get an MAF sensor thats not sending false info?
Kennebell says to use a Lightning 90mm since its OEM, but thats for 42lbs injectors.
Where are we supposed to buy an MAF that will work right and either comes with a chip
or gives you the MAF tables to order one, and doesnt send out reduced voltages?
you can take the meter that is in my cobra (24# injectors) and run it in a stock GT with 19# injectors
the difference is in the ECM NOT THE MAF
all maf's work the same... the aftermarket ones that are "tuned" actually run a higher resistance on the signal that goes back to the ECU... like joel said
Run a stock lightning meter... not one thats "tuned" and your all set
i'll bet anyone on this forum that you can swap a cobra maf into a GT and have it run fine
05-15-2006, 07:58 PM
#18
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RE: I KEEP READING THIS IN MAGAZINE'S...I NEED FACTS
I'm a little confused,
How do I order a Lightning 90mm MAF that is not tuned for any injector, or are you
saying that even though it says its for 42lbs injectors it will work fine 24's if the ECM
is tuned for it?
This confuses the hell out of me, sorry try and walk me thru it baby steps.
How do I order a Lightning 90mm MAF that is not tuned for any injector, or are you
saying that even though it says its for 42lbs injectors it will work fine 24's if the ECM
is tuned for it?
This confuses the hell out of me, sorry try and walk me thru it baby steps.
ORIGINAL: AdderMk2
ALL STOCK METERS will work on all stock cars...
you can take the meter that is in my cobra (24# injectors) and run it in a stock GT with 19# injectors
the difference is in the ECM NOT THE MAF
all maf's work the same... the aftermarket ones that are "tuned" actually run a higher resistance on the signal that goes back to the ECU... like joel said
Run a stock lightning meter... not one thats "tuned" and your all set
i'll bet anyone on this forum that you can swap a cobra maf into a GT and have it run fine
ORIGINAL: r.barn
So where are we supposed to get an MAF sensor thats not sending false info?
Kennebell says to use a Lightning 90mm since its OEM, but thats for 42lbs injectors.
Where are we supposed to buy an MAF that will work right and either comes with a chip
or gives you the MAF tables to order one, and doesnt send out reduced voltages?
So where are we supposed to get an MAF sensor thats not sending false info?
Kennebell says to use a Lightning 90mm since its OEM, but thats for 42lbs injectors.
Where are we supposed to buy an MAF that will work right and either comes with a chip
or gives you the MAF tables to order one, and doesnt send out reduced voltages?
you can take the meter that is in my cobra (24# injectors) and run it in a stock GT with 19# injectors
the difference is in the ECM NOT THE MAF
all maf's work the same... the aftermarket ones that are "tuned" actually run a higher resistance on the signal that goes back to the ECU... like joel said
Run a stock lightning meter... not one thats "tuned" and your all set
i'll bet anyone on this forum that you can swap a cobra maf into a GT and have it run fine
05-15-2006, 08:03 PM
#19
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RE: I KEEP READING THIS IN MAGAZINE'S...I NEED FACTS
ORIGINAL: r.barn
I'm a little confused,
How do I order a Lightning 90mm MAF that is not tuned for any injector, or are you
saying that even though it says its for 42lbs injectors it will work fine 24's if the ECM
is tuned for it?
This confuses the hell out of me, sorry try and walk me thru it baby steps.
I'm a little confused,
How do I order a Lightning 90mm MAF that is not tuned for any injector, or are you
saying that even though it says its for 42lbs injectors it will work fine 24's if the ECM
is tuned for it?
This confuses the hell out of me, sorry try and walk me thru it baby steps.
the MAF measures airflow by the amount of voltage that flows across two wires inside the unit. as air passes over them, they cool. the maf tries to keep them at a certain temperature
now.... a "tuned" maf will have a higher internal resistance which lowers the output voltage sent back to the ECM (look at the graph joel posted)
im saying a STOCK lightning meter can be installed in your car... without 42 lb injectors
STOCK... the tune is in the computer.... NOT the maf
05-15-2006, 08:43 PM
#20
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: cape giradeau,mo
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RE: I KEEP READING THIS IN MAGAZINE'S...I NEED FACTS
regardless to be able use the full potential...of larger inj/meter's the computer needs a remap...you can play with timing,and fuel pressure to make it "run right"..with no problems but the paremeters in the computer are not changed just the voltage out/input which regulates the injector pulse.