C & L MASS AIR
08-10-2006, 09:14 PM
#1
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Posts: 84
C & L MASS AIR
i am looking for a maf for my mild 5.0. i have the stock 55mm right now and have thought about switching it to the 70mm cobra maf. during a search i found the C & L maf tube and sensor that is 76mm and i noticed it looked like a nice piece. i read some of there claims and they seem a bit far fetched. so im just trying to figure out if i should go with the cobra piece or fork over the extra $ for the c & l unit.
here are some of there claims
"Dyno testing on many different naturally aspirated 5.0 Mustangs with 19lb injectors and various levels of modifications has shown a typical power gain of 13-14 rear wheel horsepower and 17 ft/lbs of torque over the stock air meter assembly with the same K&N air filter Here's what the magazines had to say: "The C&L Meter is clearly the winner in terms of power production.
From 3000 rpm right up to 6000 rpm, the motor equipped with the C&L produced more power than the competitor's 77mm." "The fact that the C&L meter was responsible for a gain of roughly 10 lbs-ft across the board (over the competition) was even more impressive. This kind of gain can be felt in the small of your back." "...in my testing, C&L meters seem to be more repeatable." July 2001 Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Dyno Test July 2001 Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords"
here are some of there claims
"Dyno testing on many different naturally aspirated 5.0 Mustangs with 19lb injectors and various levels of modifications has shown a typical power gain of 13-14 rear wheel horsepower and 17 ft/lbs of torque over the stock air meter assembly with the same K&N air filter Here's what the magazines had to say: "The C&L Meter is clearly the winner in terms of power production.
From 3000 rpm right up to 6000 rpm, the motor equipped with the C&L produced more power than the competitor's 77mm." "The fact that the C&L meter was responsible for a gain of roughly 10 lbs-ft across the board (over the competition) was even more impressive. This kind of gain can be felt in the small of your back." "...in my testing, C&L meters seem to be more repeatable." July 2001 Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords Dyno Test July 2001 Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords"
08-10-2006, 09:31 PM
#3
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,375
RE: C & L MASS AIR
The 70mm cobra maf will not work with your ecu, regardless of your injector size.
The Ford MAF is calibrated to the computer, not the injectors.
Move on to the aftermarket for a good MAF.
C&L has been bashed on the internet for some time, but I feel it is all bogus.
I have had my 73mm C&L for nearly 10yrs.
I used it with a CAI, which (according to internet lore) does not allow proper metering with a C&L meter. Total crap.
I have also mounted a K&N filter directly to the end of the MAF, which supposedly allows turbulence from the fan to mess with the idle quality. I had no such issues.
In fact I have never had a problem with the C&L MAF, except for the few times that I over oiled the K&N filter.
I suggest just getting the 76mm, if you go the C&L route. It allows more room to grow.
Their power gains seem a little high, unless the test vehicle had already been modified with h/c/i
About half those numbers should be achievable with an otherwise stock engine, just a guess though.
jason
The Ford MAF is calibrated to the computer, not the injectors.
Move on to the aftermarket for a good MAF.
C&L has been bashed on the internet for some time, but I feel it is all bogus.
I have had my 73mm C&L for nearly 10yrs.
I used it with a CAI, which (according to internet lore) does not allow proper metering with a C&L meter. Total crap.
I have also mounted a K&N filter directly to the end of the MAF, which supposedly allows turbulence from the fan to mess with the idle quality. I had no such issues.
In fact I have never had a problem with the C&L MAF, except for the few times that I over oiled the K&N filter.
I suggest just getting the 76mm, if you go the C&L route. It allows more room to grow.
Their power gains seem a little high, unless the test vehicle had already been modified with h/c/i
About half those numbers should be achievable with an otherwise stock engine, just a guess though.
jason
08-10-2006, 11:22 PM
#5
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Posts: 577
RE: C & L MASS AIR
I bought the 76MM kit from 50resto and I also found out a few things since I can walk up to the front counter (Waco TX).........Here is what I found out. The PMAS was not highly recommended. (When I asked if it was in stock they said "man that GUY is struggling right now"). I only asked since they were out of the 73MM C&L. I was going to walk away and noticed the 76MM c&L maf KIT that was more expensive but had the entire unit including the fliter tube and connector to the TB.........He also said when you change your stock injectors you can order a calibration tube to install. If you get the PMAS you have to send it off for calibtarion..................My mind was made up!
Now I am basically stock on my car so I did not feel a lot of differnce except the sound when you mashed the pedal.........it souded like a Holley quadrajet with no breather............
My underdrives actually felt like I gained more power than the MAF but I know when I get MODing down the road I am good for a while. Not to mention I had a few questions when I was installing and their customer service guy picked up and walked me through and quesions.................
Its overrated on HP but I am sure it will add up when you put on all the MODS.
Now I am basically stock on my car so I did not feel a lot of differnce except the sound when you mashed the pedal.........it souded like a Holley quadrajet with no breather............
My underdrives actually felt like I gained more power than the MAF but I know when I get MODing down the road I am good for a while. Not to mention I had a few questions when I was installing and their customer service guy picked up and walked me through and quesions.................
Its overrated on HP but I am sure it will add up when you put on all the MODS.
08-10-2006, 11:32 PM
#6
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,834
RE: C & L MASS AIR
I had some problems w/ my PMAS when I first got it. The extension harness they use is crap. It had bad connections and my computer didn't see the MAF and went into "limp home" mode running really rich A/F.
I would have gone w/ the 76mm C&L system if I had it to do over agian or a used Pro-M. You can use the Cobra housing w/ your stock electronics, but the pole down the center blocks airflow, too......
I would have gone w/ the 76mm C&L system if I had it to do over agian or a used Pro-M. You can use the Cobra housing w/ your stock electronics, but the pole down the center blocks airflow, too......
08-10-2006, 11:57 PM
#7
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Posts: 2,760
RE: C & L MASS AIR
C&L is hit and miss. Some people never have issues. Some people always have issues. To me it seems that C&L users have more than their fair share of problems. They are known to be surging mothers and I've seen it a few too many time first hand. I've had a hand full of the old Pro-M's. Pro-M made a great product but couldn't run a business. I've bought 2 new PMAS meters. I run an 80mm on my supercharged car and I bought a 3.5" Pro Tube for my turbo kit. It's been about 2 1/2 years now without a problem.
