HELP calling all techs
10-05-2008, 03:37 AM
#22
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yeah well isnt the whole point to take the rough ones and make them smooth...yeah im sure its close to stock but i like to know what im starting with from factory was this a roller motor then MJ its an 88 gt. we know by the firing order its a H/o motor now. sorry for the stupidty hope you guys dont mind helpin me out.
10-05-2008, 03:45 AM
#23
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E7TE-Casting Cylinder Heads
The stock 1986 heads are, to say the least, very restrictive. Narrow inlets and "high swirl" exhaust ports add to fuel economy, but at the expense of good power. These heads were used on the '86-'88 Cougar/Thunderbird, the '86-'91 Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis, and the '86 Mustang GT. In '87, the Mustang 5.0 engine received the F-150 truck heads (E7TE-AA castings, aka E7s), which added approximately 15hp; the Cougars still had the restrictive heads through 1988. You should consider using at least the E7 heads. You can find decent heads in a junkyard, at a swap meet, or online auctions or message boards. Aftermarket heads, such as the GT-40 and Trick Flow among many others, can also be used, according to your budget. By the way, you can put these heads on stock non-HO motors (without converting to HO) just as well. If you cannot find E7s, it's perfectly okay to use a slightly older Ford 5.0 head (E3, E4, etc.) but avoid reusing the E6s unless you cannot afford E7s or cannot find them.
Stock 19 lb/hr Fuel Injectors
Your stock fuel injectors (1986-88 non-HO 5.0) are rated at 14 lb/hr and are light grey in color. The HO computer is set up for 19 lb/hr (orange or tan) injectors. You'll absolutely need to acquire 19 lb/hr injectors for this conversion; you can use them from a Mustang or a Mark VII. The good news is, they're fairly plentiful and usually very cheap. Just ask any Mustang guy that's switched over to 24 lb/hr; he may give you the old 19 lb ones. Or you can check online. In general, fuel injectors are extremely reliable and usually do not malfunction (unless severely clogged), so if you get a good deal on a set, chances are you'll actually be getting a good deal. By the way, in case you're curious: if you mix the 19 lb/hr computer with your stock 14 lb/hr injectors, you will get a bad fuel starvation problem and driveability woes. You can't avoid getting the correct injectors for the HO conversion.
HO-Specific Camshaft
In order to work with the Mustang computer and injectors, you must also get a stock '87-'93 Mustang camshaft. It is the heart of the HO conversion. Ford re-ground cams almost every year for a little better performance and fuel economy, so stock HO cam part numbers changed, but they will all work with the HO computer and you will more than likely never notice any difference between them. It is therefore entirely possible to use a '92 HO cam with an '87 Mustang GT computer with no difficulties. Idle with the HO cam is very smooth, and top end is greatly increased over the stock Cougar cam. Generally you can use any 1987-93 HO cam with the speed density computer with great results. It is advised to avoid the 1986 HO cam as the later ones give a lot more usable power. There are lots of Mustang owners out there that would just love to get rid of the stock cam they have lying around (because they put an aftermarket one in)---perhaps you can wrestle one away from them. One note of caution: since we have flat-top pistons from the factory, anything more potent than the stock HO camshaft may result in serious piston-to-valve clearance problems and/or driveability problems. The only other confirmed combination that works with flat top pistons is the Trick Flow cam with TFS heads. By using an HO cam, your firing order will be different from your stock one. The firing order will now be 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8, using the HO pattern. You'll need to route the spark plug wires accordingly.
HO Upper Intake Manifold (optional)
The HO upper intake should be used as it is better flowing and helps with delivering power to the 5.0 engine. But it is optional because, although there is a minor difference in casting between the non-HO and HO plenums, the difference is simply a few horsepower, estimated at 5-7 hp. The stock Mustang upper (as well as the Mark VII HO upper) has the letters "HO" stamped under the removable top plate. If you decide to go with this intake, you should install the matching EGR plate, EGR valve, and throttle body from the Mustang as well; this will give you maximum airflow performance. So you can still use your stock upper if you like, but you'll definitely get better airflow with the HO unit. By the way, the non-HO and HO lower intake manifolds are all the same; if you want to reuse your lower that's fine also.
HO Throttle Body (optional)
The stock Cougar/Thunderbird throttle body is a rather restrictive 50mm. The stock Mustang throttle body is better at 60mm. Your stock one will work if you can't get the bigger one, but your car may bog down slightly upon acceleration due to restricted airflow. If you're shopping new, a 65mm aftermarket unit will still work with the stock speed density computer and give you much improved airflow. Anything over a 65mm throttle body on a stock motor will decrease low-end torque and actually bog down the motor with too much air. Also, the HO upper has a 67mm bore; a 70mm throttle body will create turbulence because of this. The bigger units (70mm+) should be limited to severely modified motors and larger-bore upper intakes. Be sure to buy a throttle body made for 1987-up Mustangs--the 1986 throttle bodies were unique. And remember to get a throttle position sensor (TPS) to match the new throttle body, as your stock one may not work on it.
EEC-IV 5.0 HO Computer
Here's the brains of it all, literally---the STOCK Mustang 5.0 computer. You should be able to find one at a salvage yard or swap meet, maybe even online, for a reasonable price. Beginning in 1987 Ford began using a calibration code on each computer, with the code stamped on the top, usually in three characters. For speed density, these are the computers that you can use:
DA1 (1987-88 Mustang)
DB1 (1987-88 Mustang)
DX3 (1987 Mark VII)
VL2 (1987 Mark VII)
DY3 (1988 Mark VII)
D9S (1988 Mark VII)
It is perfectly acceptable to use a manual transmission computer in an automatic car (but you cannot do the reverse). The timing curve and sensor adjustments are a little more responsive with a manual computer, giving you better throttle response and slightly improved 0-60 times.
For more information about matching up computers with engines and model years, visit this site.
MAP Sensor (optional)
The MAP sensor hangs on the firewall, just above and to the right of the upper intake plenum (just to the left of the wiper motor). This reads the Manifold Absolute Pressure, and since you'll have a different amount of vacuum with the new camshaft, you may need replace yours. It's recommended that you try to use yours first. If you experience rough idle, bad starts, no starts, or general bad behavior from the engine, replace this sensor with one that matches the calibration code for your particular EEC-IV HO computer. Now there are tons of part numbers for this sensor so it may take multiple tries to get one that works. Incidentally, the 1989-up mass-air Mustangs have a BPS (Barometric Pressure Sensor) that is identical to the MAP sensor, save for the vacuum line. If you're ever going to switch over to mass air, you can use this existing sensor by simply capping the vacuum line and letting the MAP sensor open to the atmosphere.
EVP/EGR Sensors + Idle Bypass Valve (optional)
The EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculating) Valve works in conjunction with the EVP (EGR Valve Purge); they are conveniently packaged in one unit, just behind the throttle body on the upper intake manifold. The idle bypass valve is bolted to the front of the throttle body. You should try to reuse these parts first, as they may still be good and work well with the HO computer. It's recommended that you at least clean the EGR valve before reinstalling. The same goes with the idle bypass valve. You really shouldn't need to replace these parts unless they're not working correctly to begin with.
Higher Volume Fuel Pump
A stock Mustang/Mark VII uses an 88lph (liters per hour) fuel pump; ours are 65lph stock. To avoid a severe hesitation problem and/or a lean condition, you will need to change your pump to at least an 88lph unit. We recommend at least a 155lph, good quality aftermarket Mustang-style unit (BBK, Walbro, etc.). Avoid parts store pumps as they tend to have a high failure rate. You will only need the pump itself, not the hanger, and you can reuse your sock. The wiring may need to be modified slightly, and you may also need to zip-tie the new pump to your stock hanger, but you can get everything to work with your fuel system. Remember to change the fuel filter not long after changing out the pump.
In case you're wondering, you may be able to reuse your stock fuel pump if it's still good and has been recently changed. But as it is, even 65lph was cutting it close for a non-HO 5.0. You might experience a slight fuel starvation, in which case...well, you know what needs to be done.
The stock 1986 heads are, to say the least, very restrictive. Narrow inlets and "high swirl" exhaust ports add to fuel economy, but at the expense of good power. These heads were used on the '86-'88 Cougar/Thunderbird, the '86-'91 Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis, and the '86 Mustang GT. In '87, the Mustang 5.0 engine received the F-150 truck heads (E7TE-AA castings, aka E7s), which added approximately 15hp; the Cougars still had the restrictive heads through 1988. You should consider using at least the E7 heads. You can find decent heads in a junkyard, at a swap meet, or online auctions or message boards. Aftermarket heads, such as the GT-40 and Trick Flow among many others, can also be used, according to your budget. By the way, you can put these heads on stock non-HO motors (without converting to HO) just as well. If you cannot find E7s, it's perfectly okay to use a slightly older Ford 5.0 head (E3, E4, etc.) but avoid reusing the E6s unless you cannot afford E7s or cannot find them.
Stock 19 lb/hr Fuel Injectors
Your stock fuel injectors (1986-88 non-HO 5.0) are rated at 14 lb/hr and are light grey in color. The HO computer is set up for 19 lb/hr (orange or tan) injectors. You'll absolutely need to acquire 19 lb/hr injectors for this conversion; you can use them from a Mustang or a Mark VII. The good news is, they're fairly plentiful and usually very cheap. Just ask any Mustang guy that's switched over to 24 lb/hr; he may give you the old 19 lb ones. Or you can check online. In general, fuel injectors are extremely reliable and usually do not malfunction (unless severely clogged), so if you get a good deal on a set, chances are you'll actually be getting a good deal. By the way, in case you're curious: if you mix the 19 lb/hr computer with your stock 14 lb/hr injectors, you will get a bad fuel starvation problem and driveability woes. You can't avoid getting the correct injectors for the HO conversion.
HO-Specific Camshaft
In order to work with the Mustang computer and injectors, you must also get a stock '87-'93 Mustang camshaft. It is the heart of the HO conversion. Ford re-ground cams almost every year for a little better performance and fuel economy, so stock HO cam part numbers changed, but they will all work with the HO computer and you will more than likely never notice any difference between them. It is therefore entirely possible to use a '92 HO cam with an '87 Mustang GT computer with no difficulties. Idle with the HO cam is very smooth, and top end is greatly increased over the stock Cougar cam. Generally you can use any 1987-93 HO cam with the speed density computer with great results. It is advised to avoid the 1986 HO cam as the later ones give a lot more usable power. There are lots of Mustang owners out there that would just love to get rid of the stock cam they have lying around (because they put an aftermarket one in)---perhaps you can wrestle one away from them. One note of caution: since we have flat-top pistons from the factory, anything more potent than the stock HO camshaft may result in serious piston-to-valve clearance problems and/or driveability problems. The only other confirmed combination that works with flat top pistons is the Trick Flow cam with TFS heads. By using an HO cam, your firing order will be different from your stock one. The firing order will now be 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8, using the HO pattern. You'll need to route the spark plug wires accordingly.
HO Upper Intake Manifold (optional)
The HO upper intake should be used as it is better flowing and helps with delivering power to the 5.0 engine. But it is optional because, although there is a minor difference in casting between the non-HO and HO plenums, the difference is simply a few horsepower, estimated at 5-7 hp. The stock Mustang upper (as well as the Mark VII HO upper) has the letters "HO" stamped under the removable top plate. If you decide to go with this intake, you should install the matching EGR plate, EGR valve, and throttle body from the Mustang as well; this will give you maximum airflow performance. So you can still use your stock upper if you like, but you'll definitely get better airflow with the HO unit. By the way, the non-HO and HO lower intake manifolds are all the same; if you want to reuse your lower that's fine also.
HO Throttle Body (optional)
The stock Cougar/Thunderbird throttle body is a rather restrictive 50mm. The stock Mustang throttle body is better at 60mm. Your stock one will work if you can't get the bigger one, but your car may bog down slightly upon acceleration due to restricted airflow. If you're shopping new, a 65mm aftermarket unit will still work with the stock speed density computer and give you much improved airflow. Anything over a 65mm throttle body on a stock motor will decrease low-end torque and actually bog down the motor with too much air. Also, the HO upper has a 67mm bore; a 70mm throttle body will create turbulence because of this. The bigger units (70mm+) should be limited to severely modified motors and larger-bore upper intakes. Be sure to buy a throttle body made for 1987-up Mustangs--the 1986 throttle bodies were unique. And remember to get a throttle position sensor (TPS) to match the new throttle body, as your stock one may not work on it.
EEC-IV 5.0 HO Computer
Here's the brains of it all, literally---the STOCK Mustang 5.0 computer. You should be able to find one at a salvage yard or swap meet, maybe even online, for a reasonable price. Beginning in 1987 Ford began using a calibration code on each computer, with the code stamped on the top, usually in three characters. For speed density, these are the computers that you can use:
DA1 (1987-88 Mustang)
DB1 (1987-88 Mustang)
DX3 (1987 Mark VII)
VL2 (1987 Mark VII)
DY3 (1988 Mark VII)
D9S (1988 Mark VII)
It is perfectly acceptable to use a manual transmission computer in an automatic car (but you cannot do the reverse). The timing curve and sensor adjustments are a little more responsive with a manual computer, giving you better throttle response and slightly improved 0-60 times.
For more information about matching up computers with engines and model years, visit this site.
MAP Sensor (optional)
The MAP sensor hangs on the firewall, just above and to the right of the upper intake plenum (just to the left of the wiper motor). This reads the Manifold Absolute Pressure, and since you'll have a different amount of vacuum with the new camshaft, you may need replace yours. It's recommended that you try to use yours first. If you experience rough idle, bad starts, no starts, or general bad behavior from the engine, replace this sensor with one that matches the calibration code for your particular EEC-IV HO computer. Now there are tons of part numbers for this sensor so it may take multiple tries to get one that works. Incidentally, the 1989-up mass-air Mustangs have a BPS (Barometric Pressure Sensor) that is identical to the MAP sensor, save for the vacuum line. If you're ever going to switch over to mass air, you can use this existing sensor by simply capping the vacuum line and letting the MAP sensor open to the atmosphere.
EVP/EGR Sensors + Idle Bypass Valve (optional)
The EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculating) Valve works in conjunction with the EVP (EGR Valve Purge); they are conveniently packaged in one unit, just behind the throttle body on the upper intake manifold. The idle bypass valve is bolted to the front of the throttle body. You should try to reuse these parts first, as they may still be good and work well with the HO computer. It's recommended that you at least clean the EGR valve before reinstalling. The same goes with the idle bypass valve. You really shouldn't need to replace these parts unless they're not working correctly to begin with.
Higher Volume Fuel Pump
A stock Mustang/Mark VII uses an 88lph (liters per hour) fuel pump; ours are 65lph stock. To avoid a severe hesitation problem and/or a lean condition, you will need to change your pump to at least an 88lph unit. We recommend at least a 155lph, good quality aftermarket Mustang-style unit (BBK, Walbro, etc.). Avoid parts store pumps as they tend to have a high failure rate. You will only need the pump itself, not the hanger, and you can reuse your sock. The wiring may need to be modified slightly, and you may also need to zip-tie the new pump to your stock hanger, but you can get everything to work with your fuel system. Remember to change the fuel filter not long after changing out the pump.
In case you're wondering, you may be able to reuse your stock fuel pump if it's still good and has been recently changed. But as it is, even 65lph was cutting it close for a non-HO 5.0. You might experience a slight fuel starvation, in which case...well, you know what needs to be done.
10-06-2008, 04:40 PM
#27
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Posts: 93
ok got a da1 ecu installed is this a maf comp or speed density.? theres a maf installed but cant find the plug on harness.. also got a few codes
koeo
dtc23
dtc 34
koer
dtc 44
cyl 8 code.. what gap should i be at and what timing degree.
koeo
dtc23
dtc 34
koer
dtc 44
cyl 8 code.. what gap should i be at and what timing degree.
10-06-2008, 10:57 PM
#30
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Washington, Seattle
Posts: 551
Where'd you find the info you posted?
"It is perfectly acceptable to use a manual transmission computer in an automatic car (but you cannot do the reverse). The timing curve and sensor adjustments are a little more responsive with a manual computer, giving you better throttle response and slightly improved 0-60 times."
I would disagree with this, based on what I have seen in the code of the A9L vs A9P.
DA1 is an SD ecu...
"It is perfectly acceptable to use a manual transmission computer in an automatic car (but you cannot do the reverse). The timing curve and sensor adjustments are a little more responsive with a manual computer, giving you better throttle response and slightly improved 0-60 times."
I would disagree with this, based on what I have seen in the code of the A9L vs A9P.
DA1 is an SD ecu...
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