Running lean with my new intake how do i balance it back?
11-14-2011, 07:17 PM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: california
Posts: 267
Running lean with my new intake how do i balance it back?
Ok So i dropped this motor i rebuilt into this 88 saleen and it passed smog 2 years ago no problem but now i gotta smog it again an since then i've changed some things - Power steering an AC delete (got smog pump delete 2 but put it back on to pass the smog), under drive pulleys, electric fan, cold air intake, and i just put a 65mm throttle body wit a cobra intake manifold. Now i go try an get it smogged but it failed... the emissions guy says at the 15 mph test im running really lean an at the 25 mph test im just barely barely not passing...Any ideas on how i can fix / get it to pass?? i was thinking running lean means too much air vs gas so would upgrading my injectors an maf balance it back out? do i need to throw a cam in to be better compatible with the intake/throttle body? I mean the cobra's come with what the cobra intake manifold, 24 lb injectors an calibrated maf, an like the e303 cam?? i mean seriously any ideas are greatly appreciated...!
11-14-2011, 07:44 PM
#2
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 4,616
Check the ground wire to the 02 sensors on back of the rear driver cylinder head, its probably broken or corroded.
Then raise the fuel pressure to a smooth idle.
ARE YOU STILL SPEED DENSITY OR MAF CONVERSION?
DID YOU USE A 24LB MAF AND 24LB INJECTORS = NO NO
Then raise the fuel pressure to a smooth idle.
ARE YOU STILL SPEED DENSITY OR MAF CONVERSION?
DID YOU USE A 24LB MAF AND 24LB INJECTORS = NO NO
Last edited by aode08; 11-14-2011 at 07:49 PM.
11-14-2011, 08:11 PM
#3
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: california
Posts: 267
Check the ground wire to the 02 sensors on back of the rear driver cylinder head, its probably broken or corroded. Pretty sure my 02s are working correctly cuz when i floor it my check engine light comes on (cuz its running lean) but if i just ease on the petal or let off quickly right when the check engine comes on itll just go off...so im thinking the 02s are doing their job just think im having a fuel injector / pressure issue...
"Then raise the fuel pressure to a smooth idle."
----Well i dont have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to raise the fuel pressure should i get one to help with my problem?
"ARE YOU STILL SPEED DENSITY OR MAF CONVERSION?"
-------i got an 88 lx that im turning into a saleen clone - i got it as a shell an put in all vacuum lines an wire harness' engine interior suspension body kit paint basically everything - SO pretty sure its MAF cuz i got the mass air flow sensor on my cold air intake..i should probly look up what speed density is so i could tell u what i got pretty sure my setup is MAF....
"DID YOU USE A 24LB MAF AND 24LB INJECTORS = NO NO"
-----Im running the stock 19lb injectors and stock calibrated mass airflow sensor...
thanks for replying so quick totally appreciate the help/input....
"Then raise the fuel pressure to a smooth idle."
----Well i dont have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to raise the fuel pressure should i get one to help with my problem?
"ARE YOU STILL SPEED DENSITY OR MAF CONVERSION?"
-------i got an 88 lx that im turning into a saleen clone - i got it as a shell an put in all vacuum lines an wire harness' engine interior suspension body kit paint basically everything - SO pretty sure its MAF cuz i got the mass air flow sensor on my cold air intake..i should probly look up what speed density is so i could tell u what i got pretty sure my setup is MAF....
"DID YOU USE A 24LB MAF AND 24LB INJECTORS = NO NO"
-----Im running the stock 19lb injectors and stock calibrated mass airflow sensor...
thanks for replying so quick totally appreciate the help/input....
11-15-2011, 02:18 AM
#4
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 4,616
definetly check that ground wire and invest in an adjustable regulator.
It only takes 8 mins to install one
what does the check engine light code say
It only takes 8 mins to install one
what does the check engine light code say
11-15-2011, 02:01 PM
#5
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: alabama
Posts: 1,812
Well just because you have a MAF meter in the intake piping dosent mean it is converted does it have a functional wire plugging into it?
You would have to upgraded the ecm to a MAF part also.
You added a better flowing TB with a better than stock intake and im assuming aftermaket induction piping also there are 3 reasons why you would be lean on a SD car.
The ECM in a SD car is a set table of perameters and has nothing to refference incoming air just the exaust gasses as they pass the o2s.
You dont have any means of adding fuel to the added air (which isnt alot) that is why you are barely failing on a lean condition i believe.
You do not need a bigger set of injectors just more pressure to them.
Maybe this will help you.
You would have to upgraded the ecm to a MAF part also.
You added a better flowing TB with a better than stock intake and im assuming aftermaket induction piping also there are 3 reasons why you would be lean on a SD car.
The ECM in a SD car is a set table of perameters and has nothing to refference incoming air just the exaust gasses as they pass the o2s.
You dont have any means of adding fuel to the added air (which isnt alot) that is why you are barely failing on a lean condition i believe.
You do not need a bigger set of injectors just more pressure to them.
Maybe this will help you.
11-15-2011, 04:44 PM
#6
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: california
Posts: 267
"Well just because you have a MAF meter in the intake piping dosent mean it is converted does it have a functional wire plugging into it?" --------Yes it has a funcioning wire pluged into it i believe its a couple wires an when i unplug it it basically kills the car / turns off. I have heard of MAF meters with a wire dangling inside or whatever dunno if thats what ur talking about....an if so i dont think mines like that but not sure...
"You would have to upgraded the ecm to a MAF part also." --------Where would i go to upgrade my ecm?????? thats a good question
"You added a better flowing TB with a better than stock intake and im assuming aftermaket induction piping also there are 3 reasons why you would be lean on a SD car.
The ECM in a SD car is a set table of perameters and has nothing to refference incoming air just the exaust gasses as they pass the o2s.
You dont have any means of adding fuel to the added air (which isnt alot) that is why you are barely failing on a lean condition i believe."-----------makes sense i think this is really helping!
"You do not need a bigger set of injectors just more pressure to them." -------------OK so0oO in order to get more pressure i need to get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator????
Thanks for the input i was bout to spend money at a shop an they prolly wouldnt have fixed it for a reasonable price...if u gunna get it done right gotta do it yourself!!! So what u guys think is just an adjustable fuel pressure regulator??? god i hope thatd do it!!
"You would have to upgraded the ecm to a MAF part also." --------Where would i go to upgrade my ecm?????? thats a good question
"You added a better flowing TB with a better than stock intake and im assuming aftermaket induction piping also there are 3 reasons why you would be lean on a SD car.
The ECM in a SD car is a set table of perameters and has nothing to refference incoming air just the exaust gasses as they pass the o2s.
You dont have any means of adding fuel to the added air (which isnt alot) that is why you are barely failing on a lean condition i believe."-----------makes sense i think this is really helping!
"You do not need a bigger set of injectors just more pressure to them." -------------OK so0oO in order to get more pressure i need to get an adjustable fuel pressure regulator????
Thanks for the input i was bout to spend money at a shop an they prolly wouldnt have fixed it for a reasonable price...if u gunna get it done right gotta do it yourself!!! So what u guys think is just an adjustable fuel pressure regulator??? god i hope thatd do it!!
11-15-2011, 05:58 PM
#7
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: california
Posts: 267
i was thinking i have a 255 fuel pump would that change the fuel pressure or should i just get rid of my stock fuel pump an stock fuel pressure regulator an put in my upgraded pump an a upgraded regulator?? any ideas on what kind of psi i should be setting it at or around?? or is that something that ima have to set while its running to hear/feel what it wants to run at???
11-15-2011, 09:39 PM
#8
M.A.D. Motorsports
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 8,014
Stop what you are doing....
Pop off the passenger kick panel and see what computer you are using...That will tell you if you actually have a MAF or SD car. If your car is a true cali car then it is a MAF car. Mass air was installed in 88 for california cars. Your computer should be a A9* (the *can be a L, M, or P...I think there is another and Truthfully I think the 88 MAF had a difference computer all together...I don't remember.)
Run a KOEO/KOER test and get your codes.....
You need to make sure you do not have any vacuum leaks since you installed the Cobra intake, and 65mmTB...What MAF housing are you using?
Upgrading your intake system isn't going to cause a SD car to run lean......
When is the last time you acutally did a tune up? fuel filter, plugs, wires.....
Do you have any other upgrades?
What is your timing set at?
Pop off the passenger kick panel and see what computer you are using...That will tell you if you actually have a MAF or SD car. If your car is a true cali car then it is a MAF car. Mass air was installed in 88 for california cars. Your computer should be a A9* (the *can be a L, M, or P...I think there is another and Truthfully I think the 88 MAF had a difference computer all together...I don't remember.)
Run a KOEO/KOER test and get your codes.....
You need to make sure you do not have any vacuum leaks since you installed the Cobra intake, and 65mmTB...What MAF housing are you using?
Upgrading your intake system isn't going to cause a SD car to run lean......
When is the last time you acutally did a tune up? fuel filter, plugs, wires.....
Do you have any other upgrades?
What is your timing set at?
11-15-2011, 11:17 PM
#9
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: california
Posts: 267
"Stop what you are doing...."
------------Haha uhg
"Pop off the passenger kick panel and see what computer you are using...That will tell you if you actually have a MAF or SD car. If your car is a true cali car then it is a MAF car. Mass air was installed in 88 for california cars. Your computer should be a A9* (the *can be a L, M, or P...I think there is another and Truthfully I think the 88 MAF had a difference computer all together...I don't remember.)"
----------Im at work an cars parked at home but im damn sure i got the a9l currently but i also have an a9p laying around somewheres...the car is a true california car...
"Run a KOEO/KOER test and get your codes....."
----------Is there a scanner tool / code reader that i could buy to do my own test or do i have to go to a shop for it?? any advice on where i could find one / which brand / model to buy if i could buy it???
"You need to make sure you do not have any vacuum leaks since you installed the Cobra intake, and 65mmTB...What MAF housing are you using?"
---------I know all my vacuums are good except one that i have plugged off because i dunno where it goes..ill take some pictures an post them tmrw of the vacuum that i got pluged off maybe u guys could tell me where its supposed to go...an the MAF housing is jus a stock one i got off another 88 lx looks the same as all the ones i've had previously...(ive had 5 87-93s)
"Upgrading your intake system isn't going to cause a SD car to run lean......"
--------"SD car" ? whats that stand for?? <-stupid question i know
"When is the last time you acutally did a tune up? fuel filter, plugs, wires....."
--------i just replaced wires like last week.. but fuel filter, plugs, dizzy cap an rotor all have been awhile since ive replaced.....
"Do you have any other upgrades?" --------no other engine upgrades that i can think of...
"What is your timing set at?" -----------smog shop said my timing is at 11 oh an thats with the spout connector connected (spout = plug by dizzy to let ecm control advanced timing (think it brings timing up like 20 degrees)
------------Haha uhg
"Pop off the passenger kick panel and see what computer you are using...That will tell you if you actually have a MAF or SD car. If your car is a true cali car then it is a MAF car. Mass air was installed in 88 for california cars. Your computer should be a A9* (the *can be a L, M, or P...I think there is another and Truthfully I think the 88 MAF had a difference computer all together...I don't remember.)"
----------Im at work an cars parked at home but im damn sure i got the a9l currently but i also have an a9p laying around somewheres...the car is a true california car...
"Run a KOEO/KOER test and get your codes....."
----------Is there a scanner tool / code reader that i could buy to do my own test or do i have to go to a shop for it?? any advice on where i could find one / which brand / model to buy if i could buy it???
"You need to make sure you do not have any vacuum leaks since you installed the Cobra intake, and 65mmTB...What MAF housing are you using?"
---------I know all my vacuums are good except one that i have plugged off because i dunno where it goes..ill take some pictures an post them tmrw of the vacuum that i got pluged off maybe u guys could tell me where its supposed to go...an the MAF housing is jus a stock one i got off another 88 lx looks the same as all the ones i've had previously...(ive had 5 87-93s)
"Upgrading your intake system isn't going to cause a SD car to run lean......"
--------"SD car" ? whats that stand for?? <-stupid question i know
"When is the last time you acutally did a tune up? fuel filter, plugs, wires....."
--------i just replaced wires like last week.. but fuel filter, plugs, dizzy cap an rotor all have been awhile since ive replaced.....
"Do you have any other upgrades?" --------no other engine upgrades that i can think of...
"What is your timing set at?" -----------smog shop said my timing is at 11 oh an thats with the spout connector connected (spout = plug by dizzy to let ecm control advanced timing (think it brings timing up like 20 degrees)
11-16-2011, 04:23 AM
#10
M.A.D. Motorsports
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Indiana
Posts: 8,014
"Stop what you are doing...."
------------Haha uhg
"Pop off the passenger kick panel and see what computer you are using...That will tell you if you actually have a MAF or SD car. If your car is a true cali car then it is a MAF car. Mass air was installed in 88 for california cars. Your computer should be a A9* (the *can be a L, M, or P...I think there is another and Truthfully I think the 88 MAF had a difference computer all together...I don't remember.)"
----------Im at work an cars parked at home but im damn sure i got the a9l currently but i also have an a9p laying around somewheres...the car is a true california car...
"Run a KOEO/KOER test and get your codes....."
----------Is there a scanner tool / code reader that i could buy to do my own test or do i have to go to a shop for it?? any advice on where i could find one / which brand / model to buy if i could buy it???
"You need to make sure you do not have any vacuum leaks since you installed the Cobra intake, and 65mmTB...What MAF housing are you using?"
---------I know all my vacuums are good except one that i have plugged off because i dunno where it goes..ill take some pictures an post them tmrw of the vacuum that i got pluged off maybe u guys could tell me where its supposed to go...an the MAF housing is jus a stock one i got off another 88 lx looks the same as all the ones i've had previously...(ive had 5 87-93s)
"Upgrading your intake system isn't going to cause a SD car to run lean......"
--------"SD car" ? whats that stand for?? <-stupid question i know
"When is the last time you acutally did a tune up? fuel filter, plugs, wires....."
--------i just replaced wires like last week.. but fuel filter, plugs, dizzy cap an rotor all have been awhile since ive replaced.....
"Do you have any other upgrades?" --------no other engine upgrades that i can think of...
"What is your timing set at?" -----------smog shop said my timing is at 11 oh an thats with the spout connector connected (spout = plug by dizzy to let ecm control advanced timing (think it brings timing up like 20 degrees)
------------Haha uhg
"Pop off the passenger kick panel and see what computer you are using...That will tell you if you actually have a MAF or SD car. If your car is a true cali car then it is a MAF car. Mass air was installed in 88 for california cars. Your computer should be a A9* (the *can be a L, M, or P...I think there is another and Truthfully I think the 88 MAF had a difference computer all together...I don't remember.)"
----------Im at work an cars parked at home but im damn sure i got the a9l currently but i also have an a9p laying around somewheres...the car is a true california car...
"Run a KOEO/KOER test and get your codes....."
----------Is there a scanner tool / code reader that i could buy to do my own test or do i have to go to a shop for it?? any advice on where i could find one / which brand / model to buy if i could buy it???
"You need to make sure you do not have any vacuum leaks since you installed the Cobra intake, and 65mmTB...What MAF housing are you using?"
---------I know all my vacuums are good except one that i have plugged off because i dunno where it goes..ill take some pictures an post them tmrw of the vacuum that i got pluged off maybe u guys could tell me where its supposed to go...an the MAF housing is jus a stock one i got off another 88 lx looks the same as all the ones i've had previously...(ive had 5 87-93s)
"Upgrading your intake system isn't going to cause a SD car to run lean......"
--------"SD car" ? whats that stand for?? <-stupid question i know
"When is the last time you acutally did a tune up? fuel filter, plugs, wires....."
--------i just replaced wires like last week.. but fuel filter, plugs, dizzy cap an rotor all have been awhile since ive replaced.....
"Do you have any other upgrades?" --------no other engine upgrades that i can think of...
"What is your timing set at?" -----------smog shop said my timing is at 11 oh an thats with the spout connector connected (spout = plug by dizzy to let ecm control advanced timing (think it brings timing up like 20 degrees)
ok, your shop needs to set the timing with the spout removed....big difference.
Replace the filter and plugs....stock autolites are just fine...
SD= speed density
KOEO test- no scan tool needed....just the use of google...
http://sbftech.com/index.php?PHPSESS...7&topic=2471.0
^^read through the sbftech website and do some research.
It sounds like you have a slight knowledge of what you are doing. Do some more research and learn the in and outs of the car.
To answer your original question on the cam to match intake....no you do not. You do not need to change the cam until you change the heads. If I were you the next thing I would do is move the f&ck out of cali.......then upgrade to a 70mm MAF. such as a stock 94/95GT....junk yards are full of them and there are many cars you can get them from. You just have to be sure to have the right sensor with it. Your computer will compensate for the extra air and adjust the fuel and timing curve (if it was set right). The 93 Cobra 70MM MAF housing will work but you can't use the sensor because the sensor and the Cobra computer are calibrated to work together.