Need advise: T5 Tranny, Clutch, rear end build
12-30-2011, 09:56 AM
#1
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 166
Need advise: T5 Tranny, Clutch, rear end build
Hey Guys, ok so I'm ready to start planning a Clutch, Tranny, & rear end upgrade. I've nearly got the money saved and will be paying cash. I plan on doing a R&R on the tranny & rear end myself. I'll take the T5 & rear end to a local pro or mail order / swap as needed. I have the skills.. just not the garage, specialty tools, or experience to set these units up properly. I think I'd spend just as much in tools and education as if I have a pro do this.
I'm also considering doing this in stages.
I've been looking at my driving style and my end goals. And I'm fairly sure I know what I want to end up with but I'd like a reality check on choosing parts & possibly suppliers that I may not be aware of. I especially need advise when it comes to the clutch and traction lock parts.
OK here is where I'm at: 89GT original stock drivetrain with T5 / 3.08 rear end & 122k miles on the clock. 2nd gear won't engage at higher rpms (takes at least a second) and the traction lock slips nearly always. Lower rpms and it shifts ok but 2nd isn't butter smooth like the 2-3 3-4 shifts. Reverse takes a moment to go in and 5th is a bit slow & notchy. (I put 100k miles on a 95 5.0L w/T5 so I know what a good one feels like)
As best I can tell the clutch is either factory original or a stock replacement. It chatters a little but seems to take a beating w/o slipping.
I'm middle aged and drive pretty easy & slow except for 0-60 blasts.. at nearly every stop sign I come to
My goal:
89GT daily driver with a "budget theme". For the next two years I'll be on the stock engine w/a ramped 100 shot only at the track 2-3 times a yr. (easier on parts and lets me run street tires) In two yrs I'll build a 306 w/ported iron heads / cam / intake / headers and a 100hp shot. I'm going with 4.10s, a stronger T5, hurst shifter, & rebuilding the traction lock myself. (the rear end currently has 5 lug 28 spline axles but is otherwise stock. (I've had the insp cover off))
I'm changing 1st gear to 2.95 ratio and going as shallow as I can with 5th (.60 is best I've seen)
I'm assuming the following need to be bought, but would like a reality check for anything missing or that might be underkill / overkill.
New flywheel
New rear main seal
New pressure plate
New clutch disk
New throwout bearing
New clutch cable / quadrant kit
Astro "450hp Level 3" (or possibly their whole kit including clutch)
New tranny mount
New aluminum drive shaft?
Sub frame connectors
Torque box stiffening kit
(I don't have a welder....which ones?)
Poly urethane control arm bushings (keeping stock control arms)
4.10 R&P
shims
Bearings if needed
Seals
Traction Loc rebuild kit (I have no idea whats best for my intended use)
new shocks
(I'll have a local shop quote the rebuild with them providing parts vs me bringing in parts)
Ok now.. I've been looking at the HD clutchs which are lowest price. But I am intrgued by the dual clutch kits that have much more clamping pressure w/a stock pedal effort. They cost much more but I might be willing to do the rear end in April and just wait a few months to do the tranny w/dual clutch.
Ok fire away!
I'm also considering doing this in stages.
I've been looking at my driving style and my end goals. And I'm fairly sure I know what I want to end up with but I'd like a reality check on choosing parts & possibly suppliers that I may not be aware of. I especially need advise when it comes to the clutch and traction lock parts.
OK here is where I'm at: 89GT original stock drivetrain with T5 / 3.08 rear end & 122k miles on the clock. 2nd gear won't engage at higher rpms (takes at least a second) and the traction lock slips nearly always. Lower rpms and it shifts ok but 2nd isn't butter smooth like the 2-3 3-4 shifts. Reverse takes a moment to go in and 5th is a bit slow & notchy. (I put 100k miles on a 95 5.0L w/T5 so I know what a good one feels like)
As best I can tell the clutch is either factory original or a stock replacement. It chatters a little but seems to take a beating w/o slipping.
I'm middle aged and drive pretty easy & slow except for 0-60 blasts.. at nearly every stop sign I come to
My goal:
89GT daily driver with a "budget theme". For the next two years I'll be on the stock engine w/a ramped 100 shot only at the track 2-3 times a yr. (easier on parts and lets me run street tires) In two yrs I'll build a 306 w/ported iron heads / cam / intake / headers and a 100hp shot. I'm going with 4.10s, a stronger T5, hurst shifter, & rebuilding the traction lock myself. (the rear end currently has 5 lug 28 spline axles but is otherwise stock. (I've had the insp cover off))
I'm changing 1st gear to 2.95 ratio and going as shallow as I can with 5th (.60 is best I've seen)
I'm assuming the following need to be bought, but would like a reality check for anything missing or that might be underkill / overkill.
New flywheel
New rear main seal
New pressure plate
New clutch disk
New throwout bearing
New clutch cable / quadrant kit
Astro "450hp Level 3" (or possibly their whole kit including clutch)
New tranny mount
New aluminum drive shaft?
Sub frame connectors
Torque box stiffening kit
(I don't have a welder....which ones?)
Poly urethane control arm bushings (keeping stock control arms)
4.10 R&P
shims
Bearings if needed
Seals
Traction Loc rebuild kit (I have no idea whats best for my intended use)
new shocks
(I'll have a local shop quote the rebuild with them providing parts vs me bringing in parts)
Ok now.. I've been looking at the HD clutchs which are lowest price. But I am intrgued by the dual clutch kits that have much more clamping pressure w/a stock pedal effort. They cost much more but I might be willing to do the rear end in April and just wait a few months to do the tranny w/dual clutch.
Ok fire away!
Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 12-30-2011 at 10:04 AM.
12-30-2011, 10:13 AM
#2
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 325
You could machine your flywheel versus buying a new one, but it's not much cheaper. Rebuilding the 5 speed doesn't much in the way of specialty tools - a 50mm torx, and a dial indicator is preferred - and a shop manual is absolutely required. I like the Spec line of clutch kits. The aluminum driveshaft will drop some weight, but you don't need it. Full length sub frame connectors are best. I'd get aftermarket control arms versus working to replace the bushings in the factory arms, it's easier, and they will be stronger. I've been drooling at the dual clutches as well, but haven't taken the plunge yet - they are clearly superior in some ways as you mentioned. Why iron heads versus aftermarket aluminum?
12-30-2011, 10:40 AM
#3
5th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 2,459
Only get weld in sub-frames. If you don't have a welder then pay someone. Bolt in are horrid.
As said, I would not reuse the stock control arms. They weren't any good in the first place. The stamped sheet metal design is flimsy and the oval bushings are also bad, which is why Ford ran quad shocks... to make up for that. Hey it's cheaper to produce in the factory, right?
Get new flywheel bolts and get new pressure plate bolts/dowel pins.
Stronger T-5 is kind of a relative term. The Tremec T-5 I'm running is "stronger" than a stock T-5 by maybe 15%? Just because of a few better parts. True strength is in a different transmission, IMO.
Plan on different speedometer cable gears when changing the rear end gears, in order to properly calibrate your speedometer.
Why rebuild the differential? I'm running a 31-spline EATON clutch-style posi in my car, if I remember correctly it was around $200-300. Do NOT mix up the main caps in the rear end if you are doing it yourself. Despite my mechanical ability I took my rear end and all parts to a Mustang shop here in Pittsburgh. He has the factory Ford tools... I have never heard a noise from the rear end at any speed.
What do you need shims for?
Shocks and springs should be matched and changed at the same time.
Aluminum driveshaft, as said, is not needed but does reduce parasitic drivetrain loss and slightly reduces unsprung weight, which is advantageous.
In my opinion, start in one spot and do it thoroughly. Research as much as you can. Judging by your description of the car and budget in mind, I would start by having the tranny rebuilt, machine/replace the flywheel, and replace the clutch. You don't have to get a clutch quadrant or cable unless they are bad. Old clutch cables can tend to corrode and cause binding inside the sheath. When I replaced my clutch and cable and sprayed WD-40 on the clutch pedal hinges...it changed the pedal feel to that of a Honda. Maybe do subframes after you fix your driveability issues with the transmission, then start looking at the rear end.
As said, I would not reuse the stock control arms. They weren't any good in the first place. The stamped sheet metal design is flimsy and the oval bushings are also bad, which is why Ford ran quad shocks... to make up for that. Hey it's cheaper to produce in the factory, right?
Get new flywheel bolts and get new pressure plate bolts/dowel pins.
Stronger T-5 is kind of a relative term. The Tremec T-5 I'm running is "stronger" than a stock T-5 by maybe 15%? Just because of a few better parts. True strength is in a different transmission, IMO.
Plan on different speedometer cable gears when changing the rear end gears, in order to properly calibrate your speedometer.
Why rebuild the differential? I'm running a 31-spline EATON clutch-style posi in my car, if I remember correctly it was around $200-300. Do NOT mix up the main caps in the rear end if you are doing it yourself. Despite my mechanical ability I took my rear end and all parts to a Mustang shop here in Pittsburgh. He has the factory Ford tools... I have never heard a noise from the rear end at any speed.
What do you need shims for?
Shocks and springs should be matched and changed at the same time.
Aluminum driveshaft, as said, is not needed but does reduce parasitic drivetrain loss and slightly reduces unsprung weight, which is advantageous.
In my opinion, start in one spot and do it thoroughly. Research as much as you can. Judging by your description of the car and budget in mind, I would start by having the tranny rebuilt, machine/replace the flywheel, and replace the clutch. You don't have to get a clutch quadrant or cable unless they are bad. Old clutch cables can tend to corrode and cause binding inside the sheath. When I replaced my clutch and cable and sprayed WD-40 on the clutch pedal hinges...it changed the pedal feel to that of a Honda. Maybe do subframes after you fix your driveability issues with the transmission, then start looking at the rear end.
12-30-2011, 10:40 AM
#4
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: st clair shores MI
Posts: 6,028
i think your right on with what you've stated already. (astro, 4.10's 100 shot etc.)
its the best way to go on a budget, im 40, and on my 6th stang...that is my combo over and over again because its simple, and cheap
im transless right now after breaking my 3rd stock T5 this year. im eyeballing the exact same trans as you.
for rearend upgrades, maybe just a girdle, and have the guy do extra clutches. it'll chirp on turns til it breaks in, but you really dont need to spend too much money.
the axle upgrade (28 spline) is good, ive seen stockers break on a hard launch with the same combo, but usually thats a 5k launch on full slicks. i stick with 3500 on cheater slicks
it looks like you did your homework, the only thing i might add and it it is opinion only with no experience involved, but the option i am kicking around as well.
its the 2.95 option
i think im going to stick with 3.35 1st gear, i just got a set of 28" tires so im going to modify tire size rather than gear ratio. i just like how the 3.35 + 4.10 launches, and with my combo i expect to gain a little rpm. so i can go 26" at the track and 28" on the street to tame the 4.10's if i want to. besides ive been wanting to do a comparo on the 2 different sizes anyways
yes on aluminum DS
NO !!! on the stocker control arms.... i like the mega-bite jrs and only use those
and yes on the weld in sub frame connectors. also look for the ones with the t-bracing that the seat bolt onto. that way the seats will basically bolt to the frame and you'll never get the 5.0 "gangsta" lean
its the best way to go on a budget, im 40, and on my 6th stang...that is my combo over and over again because its simple, and cheap
im transless right now after breaking my 3rd stock T5 this year. im eyeballing the exact same trans as you.
for rearend upgrades, maybe just a girdle, and have the guy do extra clutches. it'll chirp on turns til it breaks in, but you really dont need to spend too much money.
the axle upgrade (28 spline) is good, ive seen stockers break on a hard launch with the same combo, but usually thats a 5k launch on full slicks. i stick with 3500 on cheater slicks
it looks like you did your homework, the only thing i might add and it it is opinion only with no experience involved, but the option i am kicking around as well.
its the 2.95 option
i think im going to stick with 3.35 1st gear, i just got a set of 28" tires so im going to modify tire size rather than gear ratio. i just like how the 3.35 + 4.10 launches, and with my combo i expect to gain a little rpm. so i can go 26" at the track and 28" on the street to tame the 4.10's if i want to. besides ive been wanting to do a comparo on the 2 different sizes anyways
yes on aluminum DS
NO !!! on the stocker control arms.... i like the mega-bite jrs and only use those
and yes on the weld in sub frame connectors. also look for the ones with the t-bracing that the seat bolt onto. that way the seats will basically bolt to the frame and you'll never get the 5.0 "gangsta" lean
12-30-2011, 12:43 PM
#5
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 478
If you do decide to stay with the T-5, rebuild it yourself. I'm no mechanic, and I managed it, with the help of a DVD and rebuild kit I bought online from Hanlon Motorsports. Shows you how to disassemble it, and examine the components for wear and rebuild it step by step. You'll need at least that torx head previously mentioned, spring clip removers, and some punches to remove roll pins. Not hard at all. It took me about 6 hours over two days. A pro could prolly do it in 2 hours. LOL
12-31-2011, 06:00 PM
#6
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 166
Thanks Guys, In all of my 25 years of drag racing I've never broke an engine or wrecked. Never broke a rear end or harmed a car in anyway except... I've ate 4 trannys. Two automatics and two manuals. One was a stock T5 in a 94GT.
When it comes to the tranny I'd really like to over build it to take hard launches on ET street & for lightning quick power shifting (I don't like to lift). I'm thinking the Astro level 3 version might be a good balance of cost vs how hard I'll be driving it at times.
I did have a 95 stock T5 hold up to my driving style for 100k miles. But towards the end, 2nd gear syncros were feeling worn. Just don't want to pay for a conversion to a TKO.
Aluminum heads and matching intake are definitely the way to go but they are not cheap. I was thinking thumper heads, cobra intake, and a custom cam.
When it comes to the tranny I'd really like to over build it to take hard launches on ET street & for lightning quick power shifting (I don't like to lift). I'm thinking the Astro level 3 version might be a good balance of cost vs how hard I'll be driving it at times.
I did have a 95 stock T5 hold up to my driving style for 100k miles. But towards the end, 2nd gear syncros were feeling worn. Just don't want to pay for a conversion to a TKO.
Aluminum heads and matching intake are definitely the way to go but they are not cheap. I was thinking thumper heads, cobra intake, and a custom cam.
Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 12-31-2011 at 06:29 PM.
12-31-2011, 06:16 PM
#7
D.R. THE PATHETIC DORK
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 30,863
to bad you're not closer, I usually do tranny rebuilds for 250 labor and rear end rebuild/gear install for 250.00, just did one a few weeks ago on a 92 and got a 94 t-5 sitting on my bench awaiting a rebuild for a guy 
12-31-2011, 06:31 PM
#8
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 166
12-31-2011, 06:32 PM
#9
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 166
How far from Columbus Oh? I might be willing to bring the parts.