Why are the torque numbers so low for our FI options?
01-18-2012, 07:09 AM
#11
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The Coyote block is good for much more torque, about 600 ft-lbf at the crank. The weak parts of course are the pistons and conrods.
With a built rotating assembly and reduction some on the geometric CR, say down to 10:1, or even 9.5:1, you can up the boost considerably, into double digit boosts, and really pull some power out, in the 700 BHP range at the crank.
Hell, there are guys crazy enough to dump double digit boosts into the manifold of a bone stock 11:1 CR Coyote (no forged pistons on stock fake-forged sintered conrods). And those guys are reporting well north of 600 HP at the wheels!
With a built rotating assembly and reduction some on the geometric CR, say down to 10:1, or even 9.5:1, you can up the boost considerably, into double digit boosts, and really pull some power out, in the 700 BHP range at the crank.
Hell, there are guys crazy enough to dump double digit boosts into the manifold of a bone stock 11:1 CR Coyote (no forged pistons on stock fake-forged sintered conrods). And those guys are reporting well north of 600 HP at the wheels!
This is SC, 47# injectors, CAI, H pipe with Dyno tune.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2eDKXxUqXQ
Last edited by Bmr4life; 01-18-2012 at 07:12 AM.
01-18-2012, 08:45 AM
#12
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A dyno is a tuning tool. Each one is different, the numbers from dyno to dyno aren't very consistent. I would base the performance of the supercharged cars more on the times they are laying down at the track than what your tuning tool is giving.
01-18-2012, 09:00 AM
#13
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Not denying that, just calling out that 600rwhp has been claimed with only 8psi.
01-20-2012, 08:27 PM
#14
No doubt to that too. The Vortech, and other FI kits out there can get serious HP at the wheels with under 10 PSI manifold for a couple of reasons: extremely good breathing from the 4V heads and more importantly, the already high CR of 11:1.
Those kits that only put around 500 BHP or less (and this is at the crank now) is because their boost levels are really low, 4 PSI manifold and less. But if you pulley those superchargers to turn faster and use different size turbos to up the manifold boost to 9PSI, you will no doubt see north of 600 BHP crank. Hell, at the wheels too.
With a very high CR of 11:1, you do not need very much manifold boost to see some serious power increases.
And high double digits boosts? I strongly believe the Coyote can pump out over a thousand BHP crank, but this is assuming appropriate breathing before and after the heads and that the block can take such boosts.
Those kits that only put around 500 BHP or less (and this is at the crank now) is because their boost levels are really low, 4 PSI manifold and less. But if you pulley those superchargers to turn faster and use different size turbos to up the manifold boost to 9PSI, you will no doubt see north of 600 BHP crank. Hell, at the wheels too.
With a very high CR of 11:1, you do not need very much manifold boost to see some serious power increases.
And high double digits boosts? I strongly believe the Coyote can pump out over a thousand BHP crank, but this is assuming appropriate breathing before and after the heads and that the block can take such boosts.
01-24-2012, 01:13 PM
#15
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First thing first, when you see torque claimed it usualy means before 5250rpms. Every engine will make more hp than torque at 5250, its the basis of the calculation.
I hate to say this, but to me the HP number is what matters, not torque.
You can have a car with 400lb of torque and only 200hp, vs a car with 300lb of torque and 350hp. In any given time the 300hp car will smoke the living crap out of the 200hp one. Its down to gearing, it all ends up the same at the wheels provided the gearing is optimised.
This engine revs to about 7k, this is allot for 5L v8, this is factory though.
The 3v engine reved to 6250. It had less of a rev range, so to make the hp you needed more boost, the 3v engine in the 400lb of torque range ran around 6-9psi.
Now allot of people make the mistake of saying you can lower the compression ratio and shove more boost in. It was the theory for a long time for the 3v engine as well. For years I asked around, why sell short blocks with 8:1 or 8.5:1? Why not stick closer to the stock 9.8:1 on the 3v and use less boost? The engineers at ford designed the heads around that compression ratio, so why drop the ve and add heat? Some other engines (other ford engines) benefit from raising compression by .1 or .3 to gain better quench and reduce detonation.
For me for the 3v the engine with FI would have been ideal at 9.5:1... Low and behold, now you see fi built motors doing just that.
For the coyote, not having too many miles on it so far I would be hard to guess. But I would say. Modulars have always responded to two things, revving the ***** out of them, and forced induction. Turbocharging one of these engines is awesome. Don't fear compression, fear materials and fueling. Hell I would not even bother with ported heads on a coyote for FI well into the 1000hp range. Waste of money, make the bottom strong, keep the stroke/bore geometry factory and have fun. The modular heads whether 4v/3v/2v have always had great head cooling too. That plays a big part in keeping a motor together.
I hate to say this, but to me the HP number is what matters, not torque.
You can have a car with 400lb of torque and only 200hp, vs a car with 300lb of torque and 350hp. In any given time the 300hp car will smoke the living crap out of the 200hp one. Its down to gearing, it all ends up the same at the wheels provided the gearing is optimised.
This engine revs to about 7k, this is allot for 5L v8, this is factory though.
The 3v engine reved to 6250. It had less of a rev range, so to make the hp you needed more boost, the 3v engine in the 400lb of torque range ran around 6-9psi.
Now allot of people make the mistake of saying you can lower the compression ratio and shove more boost in. It was the theory for a long time for the 3v engine as well. For years I asked around, why sell short blocks with 8:1 or 8.5:1? Why not stick closer to the stock 9.8:1 on the 3v and use less boost? The engineers at ford designed the heads around that compression ratio, so why drop the ve and add heat? Some other engines (other ford engines) benefit from raising compression by .1 or .3 to gain better quench and reduce detonation.
For me for the 3v the engine with FI would have been ideal at 9.5:1... Low and behold, now you see fi built motors doing just that.
For the coyote, not having too many miles on it so far I would be hard to guess. But I would say. Modulars have always responded to two things, revving the ***** out of them, and forced induction. Turbocharging one of these engines is awesome. Don't fear compression, fear materials and fueling. Hell I would not even bother with ported heads on a coyote for FI well into the 1000hp range. Waste of money, make the bottom strong, keep the stroke/bore geometry factory and have fun. The modular heads whether 4v/3v/2v have always had great head cooling too. That plays a big part in keeping a motor together.
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