pascal

I ride a Moto Guzzi...
Tech wise, it's like a car really... It has a flywheel, a drive shaft but most importantly a dry clutch and a cat so there goes that theory IMO.
Regarding Zinc, GM has it's own breaking period oil with higher zinc content. I don't think they'd go for it if it was that bad for cats, even for that short period of time.
How long will it take for cats to go bad with higher ZDDP oil content I wonder, 100K miles?
Classic car engines definitely need zinc due to flat tappet system mostly blah, blag, blah but do modern engines need extra friction modifier when there is less friction in them?
I like theory but I live by the practice...
Anyway, I use Mobil1 for my modern engines.

shaun12

Simple, use what the owners manual states to use. Other crap can void your warranty if you really care. That being said, I have always used mobile 1 synthetic oil and filters. There has and always willl be a huge debate over which oil is better that the other and so on and so forth. I did use RP for a while in my GT, but it was a DD and was really a waste of money for me. And personally I wont be running my motor 15,000 miles between oil changes...even if the oil says its made to. I like my car and its motor. 5K-7.5K sounds better. Good luck.

scottmach

Your warranty won't be voided over a different oil and FYI it's spelled "Mobil 1".

jdos1

I live by practice as well, which is why I don't run an oil with a high zinc content in modern engines. It's not theory that oils with high zinc levels will clog cats over time, it's proven. Even if the mileage is 100K+, how many of these cars will see 100k+? Mostly all of them unless they're totaled or something unfortunate happens.
As far as the Moto Guzzi goes, how many actually have 100k+ miles on them? The cat shouldn't be an issue in that case. In my experience I've found that motorcycles burn far less oil than an automobile as well. I don't get what you're saying about the dry clutch? That's a good thing, if you had a wet clutch and ran an oil that's not motorcycle (or diesel, I.e Rotella T or Delo) spec'd, then the extra friction modifiers would cause tons of clutch slippage, frying the clutch over time and leaving you stranded.

"Do modern engines need extra friction modifier when there is less friction in them?"
The answer to that is absolutely. The lack of zinc or ZDDP in modern automotive oils is compensated for by the addition of other friction modifiers. The name of the game of lubrication is to get the friction level as low as possible to prevent as much wear as possible and also help fuel economy.


Ford uses and recommends 5w-20 in the 'yote for fuel economy reasons as well as to reduce parasitic loss as much as possible, some have argued that it's for TIVCT reasons or excessive load on the oil pump which isn't the case. It's completely safe to run a heavier oil and I would recommend doing so. Much less oil is burned and if you have a catch-can you'll also see a drastic drop in the amount of oil it collects, not to mention a higher viscosity to begin with, allowing for more thermal breakdown/shearing of the oil before you're beginning to cause additional wear.


As far as using what the manual recommends isn't a necessity as long as you run an oil that meets the spec the manual calls for. There's much better choices as to what to run than what Ford recommends. Ford recommends Motorcraft because they want to make a buck on their own product. Surprise huh? However, if you change ANY oil at the proper interval it'll provide adequate protection. Even that super cheap crap that Walmart sells (What is it called? Tech Star or something like that) would do ok if changed at the right intervals.

As far as which oil is better, a true Group IV synthetic (Amsoil Sig Series, Royal Purple, Red Line, etc.) is significantly better than a Group III or Group III/IV blend (Mobil 1, Valvoline Synpower, Castrol Edge, etc). There's no opinion to that, used oil analysis proves it. A group IV syn can absolutely hold up to the extended drain intervals with a fair TBN left over. No on-the-shelf "synthetic" can compete in terms of used oil intervals and longevity.

How is running RP a waste of money? Even if it's a DD, you significantly extend your intervals meaning less $ spent on oil and filters in the long run. IF you're timid about running a Group IV for extended intervals, run it for 10k miles, take a sample, send it in for a used oil analysis with Total Base Number test and they'll send you the results showing that there's a significant amount of life left in the oil.


I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just trying to inform, that's what forums are for.

To each his own.

pascal

And I appreciate your input jdos1, I don't see any arguing in your posts BTW...

I talked to a bunch of oil engineers over the years and they always confused me, even in the racing environment. Annoying...
They can disagree with one another at times as well, lol.
But the drop of zinc in oil was due to Government EPA mandate to like you said, not clog their imposed Cats, it wasn't a choice by engineers, they had to comply and deal with Catalytic Converters.
If it wasn't for that regulation, oil manufacturers would have retained zinc in their product today and you'd find it in the coyote engine.
And let's face it, oil topic always open a debate...

As for Moto Guzzi, they're known to go over 100K miles and I know folks that are well beyond that point. I also have friends with BMWs that have high mileage. No one is having Cat problems despite all that. Maybe cats are built differently for bikes I just don't know and frankly don't care.
I'm little league at 32K miles, lol. It's 3 years of riding though (winter mostly).
FWIW, motorcycles have become a lot more reliable these days...

moosestang

For Christ's sake don't use 5w20! I'd use a 5w40 or 10w40 if I had a new 5.0. I use royal purples cat clogging hps in my supercharged 4.6.

jdos1

Oil today is significantly different than the oil of yester-year. It's not the same formulations as before. On your part though, if you're running a m/c spec'd oil I'd HIGHLY recommend having a UOA performed every oil change and ensure that the M/C oil isn't causing excessive wear from the lack of additional friction modifiers. On-the-shelf "synthetics" or even better Group IV true synthetics would be a better choice, which I can back up with UOA's. I run what's tried and true, not sure that I'd go outside of my comfort zone to do otherwise.

I wouldn't necessarily say that todays bikes are a lot more reliable. Maybe todays Euro and American bikes, I'm biased that the Jap bikes have always been tough. :P I have an 82 Honda CB750C with 34k miles (doesn't seem like alot but I've only owned it a little over a year) and I run Rotella T 15w-40 in it, I know several people with CB750/900/1000's who have over 100k miles, keep in mind that at the time, companies worldwide never thought these bikes would be ridden past 25k miles/15 years or so before being "disposed" of. I'm partial to Jap bikes, I'll give you that. :P

I agree with the 10w40 in a F/I application but would run 10w or 5w30 in a N/A application unless the car is tracked constantly, otherwise excessive oil pressure is being built for daily driving.

moosestang

Show me this excessive oil pressure with 5w30. 5w30 is spec'd for these cars in every part of the world, but the US. So yes, I would run it in a NA application. People seem to think these modular motors were built around 5w20, which I don't believe for a second. It just so happens that 5w20 met Fords minimum requirements and gave them the best mpg.

jdos1

I think you've misunderstood me, I was saying I wouldn't run 10w40 or 5w50 in a n/a 5.0. Id absolutely run 5 or 10w30 and I already do and have been for 40k miles . I've stated previously that the Xw30 oil will provide better protection in these engines. I'll go further in depth when im not on my phone.

shaun12

Thanks for that oversight buddy. Im sure he got the point