BKKSW

A few months back I bought a 66 mustang coupe which has been stored for 35+ years. I've been slowly bringing it back to life and have run into some issues. Here's what I've done so far:

Replace fuel tank, fuel lines, fuel pump, fuel filter, 2100 carb replacement, new distributor, coil, cap, rotor, plugs, and some misc things like metal vacuum advance line, choke heat tube, oil, and oil filter. I also installed a Accel 2020 ignition module. Added 5 gallons of premium.

I brought it up to TDC and installed the distributor with the rotor pointed at the number 1 post on the cap. After cleaning and marking the timing marks on the dampener (0 and +6) I rotated the crankshaft by hand until lined up on +6 and then slowly turned the distributor until a spark was visible. I had connected the number one spark plug wire to a new plug and grounded it via a jumper wire from the plug threads to the engine ground.

I've done this several times. Once I saw a weak spark barely visible, the next time a strong spark, and the last time no spark but it ran anyway.

After making sure gas was making it to the carb (opening the butterflies and seeing it squirt inside) I turned on the ignition key and it started right up and I let it run 2-3 minutes tops. ENough to throw a timing light on it and set the timing and I think adjust the mixture screws. I adjusted them, screwed them in until the engine speed faltered a bit and then backed them out a turn.

The next time I went to start it.. I wanted to run it until it was fully warm. It wouldn't start. Finally I got it to start but it was a weak and no throttle response to think of. Idle speed adjustment had no affect.

I double checked everything just now and it started and seemed to run fine, great throttle response, etc.. but it ran worse the more warm it became until it wouldn't run at all. Even if I hold the choke plates open just right (1bout 1/8 inch) it will start, but not strong with no response. And it needs to turn over 10-12 times to start.

Anyone have any idea what's going on? I'm thinking I should go back to the point ignition.. but maybe there's something going on in the carb? Something else?

Thank you.

fastbackford351

If you're not getting a constant bright blue/white spark then I'd be taking another look at that coil. I've had coils that worked great cold but once they started to heat up, they'd break down and quit sparking altogether.

But then again, I'm the kind of guy who has to have his wife tell him that the reason his car is running like crap is because he hasn't changed his air filter in a coons age.

bop11

Why would you need to hold the choke open. It should be full open with the engine warm. Sounds like your automatic choke is not getting heat. With the engine cold you need to set the choke and fast idle by fully depressing the accelerator. As the engine warms you need to blip the accelerator to re-leave the tension on the choke spring / fast idle cam, allowing the choke to open. This assumes that the heater tube to the choke module works the thermostatic choke spring is not broken and that the choke is set correctly. After a few minutes, the choke should be fully off. The choke heater tube can corrode through or get plugged so that the choke never opens because it never heats up. An electrically heated choke is much less problematic and a good upgrade.

BKKSW

Thank you. I tend to agree with thisi so far. I don't have a spare coil. The new coil is a Standard Blue Streak which ages ago had the rep of being a great coil. Of course today it's probably made in Timbuktu by Algerian house cats.. Anyone know if another coil type, resistance, etc, is required for a electronic ignition module?

BKKSW

Under normal running conditions I'd agree. This isn't running long enough or well enough once it warms up.. and by warm (I should have clarified this) I'm talking after running about 90 seconds) to yet open the choke, but since it's a bit warm from the 60-90 seconds of running holding the choke plate open just a bit gives it the conditions it's looking for. If it were running right this wouldn't be a factor. To be sure we're talking barely running.. it stumbles and chugs and doesn't want to start and when you work the accelerator there is no response at all.

BKKSW

The saga continues...

Since my last post I've taken my time to decide where I want to take this build and I've also acquired several things to help the build happen.

I've had four different experienced body techs (25+ years) look over the 66' and they all rendered the same verdict. What they can't do is make decisions for me. The floorboards have been replaced, but not with replacements. Instead, they used a heavy galvanized plate steel which probably adds 200-300 pounds to the cars total weight. There are actually very few places where rust has broke through a panel, and where it did happened in all the common places. The front clip is straight and solid.

Work that needs to be done is to either leave in the current floor panels.. they say they're stronger than originals would be but the weight.. frame rails need to be replaced, and the rust breakthroughs repaired. And of course things like the door hinges replaced, all the panels (all are original) aligned, and several (5-6) dings repaired at which point it should e ready for paint.

One quote from the guy I liked the most is to replace the floor pans, frame rails, rust breakthroughs, replace hinges, align panels and prime it ready for paint. $2400. AFAIK this is a great price.

But I've decided I want to make a vintage race of the type I had 30+ years ago. I'll need to tub the rear wells, ensure the torque boxes are perfect, and I'd like light flares on all wheel wells made from metal. The goal is 18 inch wheels/tires.

With all that in mind.. would you pay the guy to do what he quoted. tub the wells, and do the flares.. or would you have him put in a new entire floor piece, the type that includes the floor pans, tunnel, rails, torque boxes, all of it. Or possibly leave in the heavier floor boards and do the rest? So three choices.

I'm also pondering motors. I'd like a very reliable 350-400hp. Does this preclude the original 289? (I've also confirmed the original 289 has a standard bore and could be rebuilt to factory specs just by removing the ridge and honing the cylinders, I've heard standard bore blocks are worth something?) Or a 351.. or possibly shave the towers and put in a brace for a model engine like a Coyote..

And cost wise, bringing a 289 to 350hp, what would that run approximately? I'll have to weigh that against the cost of a Coyote or maybe even the DOHC from my 99 Cobra (I could put the Coyote in that.>../

Please forgive the long post. I've been trying to sort out my thoughts on this all winter, but now spring is here and it's time to move forward. Thank you.

68SCode4speed

Stoke a 351W to a 408, tons of torque without pushing the motor too hard and getting a finicky street motor. I'd replace the whole floor pan with a new repro, add onto it the 2 piece torque boxes, a one piece seat pan & inner rocker panels like the convertibles got and you've got a rock solid & sturdy platform to build your vintage racer on.
Look into John Dinkel at Open Tracker Racing for your suspension setup. He's brilliant at using modified stock parts and making the car handle very well.

BKKSW

Would you mind me picking your brain a bit?

I've never really liked 351's.. never liked the sound they make. But maybe this is because of the way they used to be? Where would you go to get a quality 408?

Would a 351w bolt right in with just mounts? Enough room against the towers or should I have them reduced a bit for better access for the headers? Clutch and accelerator linkages clear? I can't fab worth a darn so I was hoping to choose something I could bold in, headers, exhaust, etc.. just bolt stuff up.

Two piece torque boxes? Are the ones on the car not two piece? Convertible pan/rockers? What book could I read to learn more about this area?

What transmission would you choose for a 408? My last one was a Boss 302 motor, top loader and Ford 9 inch with a locker. Basically bulletproof. I ran it hard to the point of abusing it and it never hiccuped. I wouldn't mind another top loader but an overdrive gear would be nice.

I'm slowly collecting pieces.. I've got a nice 9 inch that will bolt right in and a set of seats where the guy had brand new frames and rails and foam.. and had white leather in the regular mustang style put on. Every part was new. He had a lot in them I'm sure. I picked them up for $350 figuring I'd just buy regular vinyl black covers and be good.. but then I thought "it's leather, you can dye leather stupid.." so I'll end up with a nice set of seats. They're not what you'd use on the track but changing seats out is easy for events. I've got a 36-38" waist and I find most racing seats are made for 30" waists. Getting old is cruel..

Thank you in advance for any information you can provide.

68SCode4speed

"Getting old is cruel.. "
LOL!!! Getting old isn't for wimps either !!!

To properly weld in place a torque box you need the two piece kind to start with as you'll need access to properly weld in the first piece before capping it with the second piece. If you try to weld a 1 piece box in place you miss the backside/an area that should have been welded in place.

The 351W will fit just great - they have a taller deck than a 302 so it'll sit a tad bit higher but only about an inch or so - in my opinion WELL worth it for the extra cubes (torque). Some items from the 302 can be used with a 351W but not all of them - the second link below has that info at the end of the article. Clearances in a 65/66 engine compartment weren't always generous but it'll fit without any shock tower mods. You could use some adjustable motor mounts and lower it a bit I guess but I'm going with the old '60-'65 Falcon/'64-'65 Mustang bolt in motor mounts and then adding a driver's side torque strap to the front of the driver's side head to help hold it down when I really get on it - ask John Dinkel at OTR about this setup.
I've got a 4 speed toploader so I'm reusing it and then adding a Gear Vendors overdrive unit to it then regearing my 9 inch rear end to 3.70 or 3.89. I would consider this a bulletproof combo. Or get a T56 Magnum if you want to - they are hearty as well. (I would have just gone with a T56 Magnum if I hadn't already owned the toploader)

Link to a 408 build. I'm having mine built by Kilpatrick's in Waukesha.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-t...ouble-trouble/

http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories...-351w-stroker/

barstowpo

Bigger is better. Original 289 HiPo's only put out 271 HP and Shelby only coaxed 306 or so out of the race motors. I think big block motor mounts drop the engine a bit in later cars. Not sure if it would work in a 66. Take as much weight off the front as possible and use good brakes. Roller bearing spring perches, boxed control arms and the Shelby drop to the upper control arms also helps. If you want power steering, look at the Borgeson box.