Dennis Marks

Thanks for all the great advice last time, so I thought I would try it again. Everyone's knowledge was very helpful and greatly appreciated. I am still debating the engine upgrade in my 65. Currently 302/5 speed completely restored (down to the frame) and in process of upgrading suspension, rear, brakes and trans to performance equipment. I have been researching since my last post and have a whole new set of questions. I now know a 351W will fit with a header kit modification and little else, so I have read. I am just trying to get the best bang for my buck since I have WAY too much in this car already. What is the consensus of the best way to go-351 or stick with my 302. Both will be built and the W heads replaced with aftermarket (I know the argument between W and C, but a C is alot more work to get to fit in the narrow compartment. All I am after is around 400 HP and I know either can easily provide that. This is primarily a weekend street car. If I go to the 351, is it a bolt in since my flywheel, clutch and plate are racing upgrades for my 302? I haven't gotten to even drive the car since the current project started (new 3.92 posi rear, RYR flywheel, Spec clutch and plate, 12" Wilwood discs on all 4's,
17" AR 500 wheels, BF Goodrich Super Sport tires, and some other minor problems to solve. Now the driveshaft doesn't fit because the new rear is wider than the 65. All these are brand new parts so I really cannot afford to buy those over again. I have not seen any weights on the 302 vs the 351 as that could easily be a determining factor. If anyone wants to share some of their knowledge it would be greatly appreciated. I need it. Don't get too technical as I am learning as I go. Thanks.

001mustang

351w is a proven durable engine that can be economically built to about 300 HP with good low end torque. can access plugs and header bolts easy in 67; not sure about 65. Sits roughly an inch higher than 302.

Can't get 400HP w/o some pricey mods.

i prefer to look at area under torque curve in normal operating range when planning mods; i don't pay too much attention to peak hp although is does give rough guidance.

not sure about 302 stroker reliability? 302 stroker piston speed will increase compared to non-stroker 302. will need some expensive parts to turn desired rpms. stroker is kinda neat.

67mustang302

400hp can be had from a well built 302 with a really broad torque curve. A 347 stroker will outperform a 351 every time because the engine and internals are lighter. If you go 351, build a stroker. If you just want a 400hp engine with broad torque, build a 302 with good heads and internals, plus all the supporting crap and you're there. Or build a 347 and get 450hp with insane torque easily, 500 with a hefty budget. If you want 500+ easily go with a stroker 351. But you're better off avoiding the 351 in terms of performance unless you build it as a stroker.

How much do you have to spend on the engine/transmission? That ultimately will dictate what you can/should build.

001mustang

i could get by w/ an aluminum 351W stroker

67mustang302

If you're rich. The block alone is $5,500 unprepped.

Dennis Marks

Thanks to all for the info. It seems the general consensus is to keep the 302 and stroke it. I would love to keep the engine cost down to $4,000 or as little as I can to get what I want and still be reliable. On a previous thread the suggestion was to go with a kit from someone like Edlebrock to eliminate the guesswork. Is there actually a good long block builder out there that is reputable and not over $5,000 to get it? I have looked and read the reviews on many builders and the ones under $4,000 seems to be questionable. I know there are great builders out there and you get what you pay for, but I just don't have the $6,000 + to invest. Thanks again.

Dennis Marks

Sorry! I posted the same thing twice and couldn't find a way to delete it.

001mustang

i will be surprised if you can get a reliable 302 stroker that dynos at 400 hp for $4000 to $5000. are you using efi? 93 octane? hole in the hood? curved timing?

at what rpm will you get 400 hp?

i would consider solid rollers since hydraulic lifters start entering a gray area around 5000-6000 rpm w/ high spring rates and high lifts.

mr_velocity

Build it yourself but the budget could still be a little tight. 87 - 91 302HO is a good base especially if you can get away with a slight hone. I found a low mileage short block for $300. Put another $900 or so into it for machine work and balancing the rotating assembly. These years come with forged pistons.

From there I then went overboard with:
Trickflow heads $1300
Billet core cam, roller lifters, timing chain, roller rockers and springs to match the cam $1700
Canton oil pan $300
blueprinted standard volume race oil pump $120.
I still have to figure in:
Weiand Stealth intake $160
a carb (still not sure but I figure another $600 - $800 there),
ignition MSD dual pickup distributer and 2 MSD 6 boxes

Upgrade radiator to dissipate all the heat the higher HP motor is going to generate.

In addition to HP you also need to weigh in how much you're willing to risk when it comes to reliability. I tend to overbuild everything because I like building things, not repair them.

After you get the motor done, will the trans handle the hp/torque you're going to run through it? You're already looking at "performance" upgrades just be sure they can handle the motor.

As far a weights, a 351 with aluminum heads and aluminum intake will weigh about the same as a stock 302. A stock 302 with aluminum heads and intake is the ticket. That along with moving the battery to the trunk the the weight distribution of the car is much better. I went back and forth on 302 vs 351 for a long time before finally deciding on the 302 because I really wanted to change the balance of the car. I don't have shock towers so I could fit the 351 with no issues. I'm shooting for 375 - 400hp but its really all secondary to turn the key and go every time. Should have dyno numbers on my combination in a couple of months.

I'm bad with budget builds, my projects usually take a lot longer too because I need to replenish the funds so I can finish. Just don't show this thread to my wife, she'll know I have a hidden slush fund

JMD

IMO, a stock block 302 could be built reasonably cheap.

Good aftermarket heads, a reasonable can, and a good intake/carb go a long way to making that 400 HP.

If the budget allows add forged pistons, a good balanced crank, and some H beam rods, for a little more durability.

I know I could build this engine for less than 5,000.