Find "Ethanol-Free" Gas Stations off this site
06-17-2011, 03:33 PM
#12
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hills of California
Posts: 5,208
Ending this stupid corn crap is some of the best news that I have heard.
06-17-2011, 04:06 PM
#13
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MO
Posts: 439
I used to lose about 5% mileage when I filled up in Illinois instead of Missouri. Now both states have E10 (or E15). I don't think ethanol mixed fuels will go away. It wasn't the subsidy that led to E10, it was the EPA.
I'm just sorry E85 will go up. It is the best bargain in racing fuel out there. Same effective price as premium gas, 105+ octane, lots of timing and boost. I'll just have to get used to paying more (I guess the taxpayers have subsidized my speed addiction long enough
).
I'm just sorry E85 will go up. It is the best bargain in racing fuel out there. Same effective price as premium gas, 105+ octane, lots of timing and boost. I'll just have to get used to paying more (I guess the taxpayers have subsidized my speed addiction long enough
).
06-17-2011, 05:01 PM
#14
6th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 5,232
If the subsidy goes away, the price will shoot up. Since it's not mandatory (there is still pure gas widely available) the stations with $4.50/gal ethanol will lose their butts to stations with $3.50/gal gasoline, and will switch to gasoline very quickly. Then you'll have to settle for premium for your hotrod.
06-17-2011, 07:46 PM
#16
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Marquette Mi
Posts: 3,566
Here is what was happening, the oil companies were getting 45 cents per gallon to mix ethanol with gas. They pocketed that instead of passing on the savings to YOU the tax paying consumer. If they gave it to you then 10% ethanol would be 10 to 15 cents cheaper everywhere and E85 would be roughly 30 to 45 cents cheaper than it is now. Instead they just took the money and still gouged you, and somehow managed to get so many of you to blame the ethanol producers. So now they are cutting the blenders credit so you arent paying the oi companies THREE times, only twice. I agree this is a good thing, because they dont need more of our money for free.
Also Biden and others are working on repealing the even larger waste of taxpayer money, the oil subsidies. They only plan to cut $21 billion out over the next 10 years, but oil got $72 billion between 2004 and 2009. Ethanol got less than $6 billion in the same time, but you dont get to see those statistics do you? Hell all of green energy, wind, solar, biofuel, etc got less than $20billion in the same time as oil got $72. That doesnt even start to count what the cost for our military to be there amounts to.
http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/677...ernight-energy
No the prices will stay the same on everything, the oil companies will just make less money for free, so they will probably raise the price on all gasoline, even the stuff that doesnt have any ethanol in it.
Lots of other benefits. E85 will run effortlessly on 13:1 compression and it makes lots more power than pump gas. Even E10 and E15 will give a power increase over gasoline with no ethanol in it. There is an article in High Performance Pontiac this month that proves that on a 455 ci engine with less than 9:1 compression. The octane isnt the reason why, its the ethanol that made the power. It is an oxygenated fuel that means it carries its own O2 with it.
The word that it will ruin your fuel system is utterly bogus. Ethanol cleans your fuel system of the varnish and crud that gasoline leaves behind. It wont harm steel lines and if your car has rubber lines made after 1983 in it, they are safe too. Electric fuel pumps last longer with ethanol than they do on straight gas. That has been proven by Universities testing them.
Ethanol does not leave black carbon deposits in your engine, and thus ethanol fueled engines have no appreciable wear in them after 500,000 miles. Wouldnt you like to have the engine in your Mustang last 500,000 to a million miles? I know I would.
Since it doesnt leave carbon build up in your engine, oil changes can be less frequent, up to 10,000 miles. When you have an ethanol fueled engine the only reason you need to change the oil is thermal breakdown and loss of lubricity that comes with it being run in an engine, it wears out instead of filling with gunk.
It burns cooler and thus you have less waste heat to get rid of through the radiator. Most of gasolines energy goes out the tailpipe or out the radiator as waste heat. An E85 or straight ethanol engine can use a much smaller radiator and cooling system, that saves weight and complexity.
It burns MUCH cleaner than gasoline, if you have a hard time passing smog you can put a few gallons of E85 in your tank and even a pos engine will pass. It lowers CO, NOX, and pretty much everything else that comes out the tail pipe. All it produces when you burn it in an engine is CO2 and H2O, you know the same things YOU produce when you breathe.
If you are drag racing ethanol engines are more consistent with hardly any effect from weather changes. The fact that they make more power is a bonus, and less heat to build up in the staging lanes doesnt hurt any either.
The funny thing about people saying it sucks up water is that is a good property of ethanol fuels. Gasoline with water in it is a mess, drain the tank and hope you dont get more water, or add some HEET to it. What is HEET? Well those additives are either methanol or ethanol, and they absorb the water and mix with the gas so you can then burn the water that is in the system, instead of it staying separate like it does in gas and causing all sorts of problems.
Lots of negativity here, yet I seriously doubt that the naysayers have first hand experience with ethanol fuels, other than the 10%. And any problem that arises is blamed on ethanol even if it is impossible for ethanol to be the problem. I have been running E85 and my own home made ethanol since 2007 in a 1970 GTO with a stock fuel system and a Quadrajet carb.
You guys know I am not some looney who doesnt know squat about cars, and I have found no problems with any part of the fuel system whatsoever. The rubber lines have lasted longer than they did on gas, and I have yet to have a problem with water in the tank even when the car has sat for two years and only moved around the yard. 1970 GTOs dont have a sealed fuel system like the new cars, and it does get humid here, I dont live in Arizona. If there was going to be a problem with it, this is the car that would have the problem.
You can stay negative on ethanol if you like, but when you want the power, reliability, drivability, and lots cheaper fuel, then maybe you will ask me how to convert your carb. That might be when you finally figure out you have been lied to and gasoline is pretty bad for your car, I figured that out a while ago.
The money spent on ethanol stays here in our country. The leftovers from ethanol production feed cattle and make them gain weight with less feed, and also produce less methane. We arent sending money to foreign countries to pay for ethanol, it goes to people right here in the USA, but apparently some of you like to give money to people who fly airplanes into our buildings.
Lastly, nobody is getting killed over corn fields or anything else that we can make ethanol from. I have been to the sandbox, I have been shot at, I have lost friends over there, my brother has done 7 tours over there. It is costing us millions every hour just to be there, and you guys think we should stay so we can get more gas that will wear out our engines and pollute our air. Ok man, why not enlist and go defend the oil companies profits yourself?
Also Biden and others are working on repealing the even larger waste of taxpayer money, the oil subsidies. They only plan to cut $21 billion out over the next 10 years, but oil got $72 billion between 2004 and 2009. Ethanol got less than $6 billion in the same time, but you dont get to see those statistics do you? Hell all of green energy, wind, solar, biofuel, etc got less than $20billion in the same time as oil got $72. That doesnt even start to count what the cost for our military to be there amounts to.
http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/677...ernight-energy
Lots of other benefits. E85 will run effortlessly on 13:1 compression and it makes lots more power than pump gas. Even E10 and E15 will give a power increase over gasoline with no ethanol in it. There is an article in High Performance Pontiac this month that proves that on a 455 ci engine with less than 9:1 compression. The octane isnt the reason why, its the ethanol that made the power. It is an oxygenated fuel that means it carries its own O2 with it.
The word that it will ruin your fuel system is utterly bogus. Ethanol cleans your fuel system of the varnish and crud that gasoline leaves behind. It wont harm steel lines and if your car has rubber lines made after 1983 in it, they are safe too. Electric fuel pumps last longer with ethanol than they do on straight gas. That has been proven by Universities testing them.
Ethanol does not leave black carbon deposits in your engine, and thus ethanol fueled engines have no appreciable wear in them after 500,000 miles. Wouldnt you like to have the engine in your Mustang last 500,000 to a million miles? I know I would.
Since it doesnt leave carbon build up in your engine, oil changes can be less frequent, up to 10,000 miles. When you have an ethanol fueled engine the only reason you need to change the oil is thermal breakdown and loss of lubricity that comes with it being run in an engine, it wears out instead of filling with gunk.
It burns cooler and thus you have less waste heat to get rid of through the radiator. Most of gasolines energy goes out the tailpipe or out the radiator as waste heat. An E85 or straight ethanol engine can use a much smaller radiator and cooling system, that saves weight and complexity.
It burns MUCH cleaner than gasoline, if you have a hard time passing smog you can put a few gallons of E85 in your tank and even a pos engine will pass. It lowers CO, NOX, and pretty much everything else that comes out the tail pipe. All it produces when you burn it in an engine is CO2 and H2O, you know the same things YOU produce when you breathe.
If you are drag racing ethanol engines are more consistent with hardly any effect from weather changes. The fact that they make more power is a bonus, and less heat to build up in the staging lanes doesnt hurt any either.
The funny thing about people saying it sucks up water is that is a good property of ethanol fuels. Gasoline with water in it is a mess, drain the tank and hope you dont get more water, or add some HEET to it. What is HEET? Well those additives are either methanol or ethanol, and they absorb the water and mix with the gas so you can then burn the water that is in the system, instead of it staying separate like it does in gas and causing all sorts of problems.
Lots of negativity here, yet I seriously doubt that the naysayers have first hand experience with ethanol fuels, other than the 10%. And any problem that arises is blamed on ethanol even if it is impossible for ethanol to be the problem. I have been running E85 and my own home made ethanol since 2007 in a 1970 GTO with a stock fuel system and a Quadrajet carb.
You guys know I am not some looney who doesnt know squat about cars, and I have found no problems with any part of the fuel system whatsoever. The rubber lines have lasted longer than they did on gas, and I have yet to have a problem with water in the tank even when the car has sat for two years and only moved around the yard. 1970 GTOs dont have a sealed fuel system like the new cars, and it does get humid here, I dont live in Arizona. If there was going to be a problem with it, this is the car that would have the problem.
You can stay negative on ethanol if you like, but when you want the power, reliability, drivability, and lots cheaper fuel, then maybe you will ask me how to convert your carb. That might be when you finally figure out you have been lied to and gasoline is pretty bad for your car, I figured that out a while ago.
The money spent on ethanol stays here in our country. The leftovers from ethanol production feed cattle and make them gain weight with less feed, and also produce less methane. We arent sending money to foreign countries to pay for ethanol, it goes to people right here in the USA, but apparently some of you like to give money to people who fly airplanes into our buildings.
Lastly, nobody is getting killed over corn fields or anything else that we can make ethanol from. I have been to the sandbox, I have been shot at, I have lost friends over there, my brother has done 7 tours over there. It is costing us millions every hour just to be there, and you guys think we should stay so we can get more gas that will wear out our engines and pollute our air. Ok man, why not enlist and go defend the oil companies profits yourself?
06-17-2011, 07:51 PM
#17
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Marquette Mi
Posts: 3,566
Almost forgot. The thing about mileage. Well increase compression and mileage goes up along with the power produced. Build your engine with high compression, like over 12:1 and you will get better mileage than you would have on pump gas at 9:1 and make LOTS more power doing it.
I am not the only one who has found that a 50/50 mix or a 40/60 mix of ethanol gets the same or better mileage than straight gas. It does exactly that in the 98 Gran Prix I have, which is not a flex fuel vehicle. I just put half a tank of one and then the other in, and it usually gets about 32mpg and runs much better.
What do I know though, I am just a master technician who has been working with the stuff for 5 years now.
I am not the only one who has found that a 50/50 mix or a 40/60 mix of ethanol gets the same or better mileage than straight gas. It does exactly that in the 98 Gran Prix I have, which is not a flex fuel vehicle. I just put half a tank of one and then the other in, and it usually gets about 32mpg and runs much better.
What do I know though, I am just a master technician who has been working with the stuff for 5 years now.
06-18-2011, 12:26 AM
#19
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Washington
Posts: 147
Since there is no leaded gas or lead gas additives anymore you won't find "pure gas" anywhere. It either has ethanol in it or some kind of additive that is carcinogenic (now outlawed) - so yes erthanol is a better additive.