Header issue
11-10-2016, 12:49 PM
#1
Header issue
Good day all. lm a long time member but lost access to my old registered email and forgot my password so l'm starting over. Anyway, on to my issue.
l have a 66 Mustang Fastback with complete drivetrain from a 1995 5.0 Mustang. lt also has a Borgeson power steering conversion which has a pressure powered gearbox. Now, my issue is header fitment. According to Borgeson, if you plan on using headers, they recommend Tri-y only. Which l purchased. They do not fit. They hit a multitude of things including upper control arm bolt (running through shock tower closest to firewall) the shock tower itself, the bellhousing, and last but not least the clutchfork. Now, l cut several threads off the upper control arm bolt. Solved that issue. Now the primary tube itself hits the shock tower, which l can solve. l ground away a massive amount of the bellhousing to make clearance for the collector. So much so l had to stop as now if l go any further it will actually grind into where the clutch cable goes through the mounting hole in the housing. Also, if l did grind more away to make fit, it would surely collide with the clutch fork itself which l'm not sure what to do about. That's the issue with the long tubes, now onto the issues with the shorties. They hit the power steering gearbox itself on primary tube #8. And even if l somehow fixed that issue it would appear that primary tube 6 or 7 would collide with the shock tower itself. Now that I can fix but not sure how to fix #8 hitting the top of the gearbox itself. Some of the research l have done shows me that there is a difference between the 87-93 T5 vs the SN95 94-95 T5 models, being that the SN95 models are about 1/2-3/4 inch longer, this may be the issue with the long tubes but has nothing to do with the shorties not fitting. l'm way to far and invested in this setup to start switching out major drivetrain parts. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. l can provide pictures lf need be.
Thank you so much in advance..... Randy
l have a 66 Mustang Fastback with complete drivetrain from a 1995 5.0 Mustang. lt also has a Borgeson power steering conversion which has a pressure powered gearbox. Now, my issue is header fitment. According to Borgeson, if you plan on using headers, they recommend Tri-y only. Which l purchased. They do not fit. They hit a multitude of things including upper control arm bolt (running through shock tower closest to firewall) the shock tower itself, the bellhousing, and last but not least the clutchfork. Now, l cut several threads off the upper control arm bolt. Solved that issue. Now the primary tube itself hits the shock tower, which l can solve. l ground away a massive amount of the bellhousing to make clearance for the collector. So much so l had to stop as now if l go any further it will actually grind into where the clutch cable goes through the mounting hole in the housing. Also, if l did grind more away to make fit, it would surely collide with the clutch fork itself which l'm not sure what to do about. That's the issue with the long tubes, now onto the issues with the shorties. They hit the power steering gearbox itself on primary tube #8. And even if l somehow fixed that issue it would appear that primary tube 6 or 7 would collide with the shock tower itself. Now that I can fix but not sure how to fix #8 hitting the top of the gearbox itself. Some of the research l have done shows me that there is a difference between the 87-93 T5 vs the SN95 94-95 T5 models, being that the SN95 models are about 1/2-3/4 inch longer, this may be the issue with the long tubes but has nothing to do with the shorties not fitting. l'm way to far and invested in this setup to start switching out major drivetrain parts. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. l can provide pictures lf need be.
Thank you so much in advance..... Randy
11-11-2016, 08:52 AM
#2
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Goodyear, AZ
Posts: 1,674
Please post pictures!
I have a 5.0 roller motor and a T5 trans as well in my 66. I am using headman long tube heads and they fit fine. I have no issues at all. They are close to the shock tower on the drivers side, but i found that the main reason was the motor mounts.
I ended up switching out the mounts not because of the of this reason but because i had a bad mount.
In fact i have enough room to install and remove the headers without removing the engine. you should be using headers for a 66 not fox body headers. I will be glad to send pics if you like.
I have a 5.0 roller motor and a T5 trans as well in my 66. I am using headman long tube heads and they fit fine. I have no issues at all. They are close to the shock tower on the drivers side, but i found that the main reason was the motor mounts.
I ended up switching out the mounts not because of the of this reason but because i had a bad mount.
In fact i have enough room to install and remove the headers without removing the engine. you should be using headers for a 66 not fox body headers. I will be glad to send pics if you like.
11-11-2016, 08:56 AM
#4
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 5,896
I'm not sure I can help with the overall problem, but I may be able to add another piece to the puzzle.
The 94-95 T5's are shorter than the prior fox-body models because the input shaft is shorter. This requires a shorter than normal bellhousing and can cause some weird fitment issues, and is why these are generally not recommended for classic conversions.
Not saying that this is your problem, but it's something to be aware of.
On a different note, have you considered some adjustable motor mounts? I've heard good things about the RMP adjustable mounts, which might help you fix some of your fender clearance issues.
The 94-95 T5's are shorter than the prior fox-body models because the input shaft is shorter. This requires a shorter than normal bellhousing and can cause some weird fitment issues, and is why these are generally not recommended for classic conversions.
Not saying that this is your problem, but it's something to be aware of.
On a different note, have you considered some adjustable motor mounts? I've heard good things about the RMP adjustable mounts, which might help you fix some of your fender clearance issues.
11-11-2016, 02:57 PM
#6
Very much thanks to both MonsterBilly and Starfury. l'll start with my replies in order....
My motor mounts and motor mount brackets are stock new factory items from CJ Pony parts so they are stock and engine and trans just falls into place very easily when there are no headers on it and the angle and level is perfect. Both sets of my headers (long and short) are specific for 65-66 V8 Mustang with T5, not late model 5.0. And yes, lf you could send pics that would be very useful. l will put in some of my own but will apologize in advance for no headers being in them as they are already re-packaged.
Starfury, yes, l'm sure your right. l just remembered some of the research l did yielded differences between the 87-93 vs 94-95 T5, l just thought the SN95 units were longer, not shorter and that would definitely explain why l had to use a AOD trans mount to make it work haha. But l'm fairly certain that wouldn't make much difference in where both my headers are hitting. Adjustable motor mounts might be the way to go but l'm hesitant to go that route as the hole in the factory motor mounts are more than an inch off to make headers not hit. That would put the eng at a very bad vertical angle, no? lf it was just horizontal forward or backwards, that would be great, but being moved in a horizontal direction wont help where its colliding with the inner fender, the steering pitman arm, or the gearbox itself. lm really at my wits end here. l'm just throwing $$$ at headers here and l cant keep doing this..
l placed tape in the photos where the headers are hitting, again, sorry for the poor photos
My motor mounts and motor mount brackets are stock new factory items from CJ Pony parts so they are stock and engine and trans just falls into place very easily when there are no headers on it and the angle and level is perfect. Both sets of my headers (long and short) are specific for 65-66 V8 Mustang with T5, not late model 5.0. And yes, lf you could send pics that would be very useful. l will put in some of my own but will apologize in advance for no headers being in them as they are already re-packaged.
Starfury, yes, l'm sure your right. l just remembered some of the research l did yielded differences between the 87-93 vs 94-95 T5, l just thought the SN95 units were longer, not shorter and that would definitely explain why l had to use a AOD trans mount to make it work haha. But l'm fairly certain that wouldn't make much difference in where both my headers are hitting. Adjustable motor mounts might be the way to go but l'm hesitant to go that route as the hole in the factory motor mounts are more than an inch off to make headers not hit. That would put the eng at a very bad vertical angle, no? lf it was just horizontal forward or backwards, that would be great, but being moved in a horizontal direction wont help where its colliding with the inner fender, the steering pitman arm, or the gearbox itself. lm really at my wits end here. l'm just throwing $$$ at headers here and l cant keep doing this..
l placed tape in the photos where the headers are hitting, again, sorry for the poor photos
11-16-2016, 07:46 PM
#7
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 5,896
I'm going to go out on a limb and blame the headers. I don't see why properly fitted headers should be hitting in all of those places.
What kind of headers are you using? Many headers are "one size fits all" and not necessarily designed specifically for your car.
Headers have been on my to-do list for a long time, and now that I'm in a position to actually pick up a set, I'm looking at either Doug's Headers or a set of FPAs. Both are much higher quality than your off-the-shelf headers that are more readily available, and while they're expensive, it seems to be a "get what you pay for" situation.
What kind of headers are you using? Many headers are "one size fits all" and not necessarily designed specifically for your car.
Headers have been on my to-do list for a long time, and now that I'm in a position to actually pick up a set, I'm looking at either Doug's Headers or a set of FPAs. Both are much higher quality than your off-the-shelf headers that are more readily available, and while they're expensive, it seems to be a "get what you pay for" situation.
11-17-2016, 06:18 AM
#8
They are two different sets actually, both from ebay. The shorties are Performance Spec, and according to the ebay counter, has sold 152 sets. The Tri-Y's are from a company called tcboverstock and shows they have sold 27 sets. lt just seems hard to believe that that many would have been sold if there were fitment issues with them. Maybe its a quality control thing? Maybe you are right though. l have one last thing to try and that's some 4-way adjustable motor mounts. That may resolve the issue. Thank you for your reply
11-17-2016, 09:34 AM
#9
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Goodyear, AZ
Posts: 1,674
i have a 66, with a t5, and borgenson steering. I am using headman longtube headers. Seen here. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h.../model/mustang
I also have adjustable engine mounts but they also fit well when i had stock mounts too.
The only difference in our cars, is the fact that you have a newer t5. I really don't think that should be an issue because the circumference of the bell housing is the same either way.
Have you jacked the engine up a little and installed the headers then set it engine back down into place?
Are you maybe just trying to squeeze them in with the engine in place? Is so that wont work. The engine must be unbolted and jacked up a few inches to allow room for them to wiggle in place.
I also have adjustable engine mounts but they also fit well when i had stock mounts too.
The only difference in our cars, is the fact that you have a newer t5. I really don't think that should be an issue because the circumference of the bell housing is the same either way.
Have you jacked the engine up a little and installed the headers then set it engine back down into place?
Are you maybe just trying to squeeze them in with the engine in place? Is so that wont work. The engine must be unbolted and jacked up a few inches to allow room for them to wiggle in place.
11-18-2016, 06:26 AM
#10
Billy.... yes. Actually that's the only way l can get the long tubes in actually. Moreso, l even have the tranny unbolted so l can tilt the eng from the front as well as it going up. when its about an inch or inch and half off motor mount they clear all the body and steering components but still interfere with the bellhousing itself and is less than 1/4 inch away from the clutchfork. Which makes sense as the trans when bolted to the eng for all intents and purposes actually is part of the eng itself and wouldn't make a difference it upside down and out of the car, it would still hit. Maybe your right and its just the headers themselves. ARGHHHHHH.
Thank you again for your help and reply...
Thank you again for your help and reply...
