zeddy

This is driving me bonkers. I'm having a really hard time even getting it to fire at all. Saturday I tried everything then all of the sudden it started, I drove it around and it restarted several times once hot no problem. I made a slight adjustment to the choke then the next morning when I tried again it almost started just by hitting the key then nothing I did would work. I had almost given up then it started again. Now it dies when hot. Even when the rpm is up a bit. I'm starting to think I have an intermittent electrical issue because when it dies it's like someone shut off the key(no sputter or anything).

Last night I pulled the dash apart and I'm going to swap out the ign switch and pigtail since I already have one.

When I had it running I pulled the top off the carb and checked the float level and everything was good.

I put a meter on the coil power so I can see if it drops out. I'm also looking at replacing the balast resister wire if I can find one.

zeddy

Thanks for all the advise guys it's has really helped. It seems at every turn I keep finding stuff that is questionable so I fix it but it's not the problem. I guess thas the problem with a 50 year old car.

I have mt ign issues fixed, New Pertronix Distributor and coil. New Ign switch and pigtail. Removed the ballast resister wire. Plugs and Wires were new 400miles ago. New engine harness.

I'm still having a really hard time to start it Cold. The only way I can get it to fire after it sits overnight is to pump the gas 6 to 8 times. I just had the carb guy check the carb again! Hot it runs like a top. The float level is good. I even checked it after it sits overnight. Someone else on here had a similar problem and it was the float retaining clips opening the needle and the fuel leaked out. I checked that too. I checked the fuel pump pressure and filters.

Starfury

Glad you got the ignition ironed out. Removing the ballast resistor is often required when upgrading, but you do need to make sure you have an internally resisted coil. Also, keep in mind that some versions of the Pertronix controllers will melt themselves if you leave the key on with the engine off.

What gap are you running on your plugs? With electronic ignition and a good coil to back it up, you can often run .040-0.45" gap. Opening this up gives you a wider spark which improves ignition reliability.

If the cold start problem was related to dry bowls in the morning, you'd have to crank it to refill the bowls, then pump it to prime and then crank to start.

Cold start issue sounds like choke adjustment. If it fires after pumping the gas, that suggests the choke plate isn't closed all the way, which isn't pulling enough gas into the engine, forcing you to manually pump some extra just to get it running.

After the car sits overnight, pump the gas once and take a look to see if the choke plate is completely closed. If it's not, adjust until it is. You may have to repeat this adjustment come winter time.

zeddy

Thanks Tad,

I just installed the pertronix so I haven't re gapped the plugs yet. I was looking to see how much i could open them up. I have the flamethrower 3 which won't melt if you leave the key on. I also bought the flamethrower 3 coil which specifies no ballast resistor.

I checked the bowls in the am prior to starting and they were full. Also the first press of the throttle engages the choke(closes the butterfly all the way) but it won't start until you pump the throttle.

Gun Jam

You should only have to pump the throttle once or twice. You may have a worn accelerator pump diaphragm. If you pull the throttle open with the air cleaner off (and engine off) when you look down the carb you should see two well defined streams of fuel that have good velocity behind them and **** hard enough spray against the venture walls (or boosters) and create a chunky mist on impact. If you open the throttle quickly and they kind of leak out that would indicate need for repair.

Also having the choke fully closed doesnt sound like a plan for easy starts in my book. You want the choke to close most of the way but not fully. A proper choke plate for a cold motor should be closed far enough that a pencil could just fit down the gap. Any more closed than that and life is probably going to suck.

SteveL

A few issues I have had with vehicles that are hard starting after sitting for hours.
I think you said the engine is new? If not, I have worked on more than one that has badly worn piston rings. Sitting overnight the oil will drain off the cylinder walls and it will lose compression, until it is cranked long enough to get oil on the cylinder walls. The oil will take up the gap and increase compression. Probably not your problem though.
Check your fuel lines and your pump. First thing in the morning check pump pressure AND volume. I have worked on a few cars that have a small pin hole leak in the fuel line. Sitting overnight it lets the fuel drain either out or back into the tank. Usually not detectable by a gas puddle or a smell, but enough to let a little air into the line. In the morning you will have to crank it until the pump gets primed again and starts pumping enough fuel to start the car. I have also seen fuel pumps that will allow the line to drain back and cause a hard morning start.
Other than that, start back at the basics. Check ignition timing, spark plugs and spark plug gap, check all plug wires.
My old Ford pickup I just sold was very hard to start cold unless you know the proper procedure. It had a 460 with a Holley 4bbl, but I also had a Gran Torino that was the same way. If I cranked on the engine and pumped the gas at the same time it would almost drain the battery trying to start it. Then it would not idle. I had the chokes set too light on both. BUT if I turned the key, cranked the engine 3 or 4 seconds, pumped the gas 4 or 5 times the cranked the engine again they would start. Pumping the gas while cranking would not allow enough fuel to fill into the float bowl to start them.
I am sure you know, but these older cars will never start like a newer fuel injected car will. You will almost never be able to just reach in the window and turning the key when the engine is cold and have it start. A couple of pumps on the gas is normal. If everything is tuned perfectly then it should take no more than 2 or 3 pumps.
Final thought, make sure your mechanic really knows these older cars. These days it is hard to find mechanics that can work on these older cars. Believe it or not, a while back I saw someone take an old pickup into a local shop. The mechanic is a young kid, and is a good mechanic. He carried his scan tool out and spent at least 5 minutes looking for the ODB port to plug into. Then he said he couldn't figure out what was wrong unless he could scan the codes.
I am sure you already know all of this, and have checked everything I have suggested, but it never hurts to re-think it. More than once I have spent days chasing a problem on a car, then in the middle of the night out of nowhere have the answer come to me. Usually it is something easy I just overlooked.
Too add to this long post, do not overlook the simple things. My old gran torino back in the mid 80's was running like crap. When it warmed up, I could step on the gas and it would surge ahead smooth, then fall flat and act like a serious multi cylinder miss. As long as I kept pumping the gas going down the highway it ran good, but would gain speed. Try to hold a steady speed and it would run rough and lose all power. I checked with a couple of mechanics, they all could not figure it out. It felt and sounded like an electrical problem. After a couple of weeks of chasing this and changing parts I pulled the top off of the carb and watched the fuel in the bowl when the engine was running and found my problem right away. A few months before I had a mechanic rebuild the carb. He used Blue RTV sillycone sealant on the fuel filter. You don't use that on carbs or anywhere there is a lot of gasoline exposure. A small piece of the blue RTV came loose and as floating around in the float bowl. When I was at highway speeds it would get sucked down onto one of the jets. When I was off the throttle the suction would stop and it would float away. When it sat overnight it would lift off of the jet and float away. At highway speeds it would suck back down onto the jet.

SteveL

Hey, I just had a thought that came to me after posting my ramblings last reply.
You said it had been bored and had a little bigger cam? See what others on here think, but with a bigger cam and larger bore you might need to run your fuel mixture a little fat. Drag racing and stock car racing we added a bigger cam. We would run them rich enough that when we let off they would puff smoke, you don't need it that rich but might want to bump the float levels up just a little.
Also, with a bigger cam you will probably want more timing advance than stock. When I set timing on cars with larger cams I go by sound, not by a light. Get it to operating temp and let it idle. Slowly turn the distributor until the engine starts to drop off then turn it the other way until it starts to drop off. Then I get it to about center, and turn it until the idle comes up, then back it off slightly. If it pings under load when it is warmed up, the timing is too far advanced and the fuel mixture if detonating before the piston is at TDC. If that happens back it off 2 or 3 degrees.

Starfury

Tuning advance by sound is dangerous for someone inexperienced. If we know what cam it is, we can make a recommendation as to what advance you should be running, but I have to disagree with SteveL's instructions to tune by ear. Light detonation may not be audible in the cabin, and a continuous mild detonation could be disastrous to the engine.

Cam manufacturers will often supply recommended timing curves based on engine configuration. I gave comp cams my engine specs and they gave me a timing curve to follow, and it's worked out pretty well for me. Obviously this curve is a guideline, but it's a good starting point and should keep you out of too much trouble.

I didn't think about it earlier, but since you have a new Pertronix distributor, you really need to look at setting the mechanical advance curve this way before continuing.

zeddy

Thanks for all of the replies guys this is great.

From everything I have read it makes me think it is the accelerator pump diaphragm. But wouldn't that have been replaced when the Carb was rebuilt? The Carb has been back to the carb guy twice since he rebuilt it a year ago. Once for a stuck float and this last time because I thought the accelerator pump stream looked weak, he said the float geometry was off because someone had bent them.

As for the other ideas, Yes the motor is a fresh rebuild by a very reputable builder, He ran the motor before he gave it to me, set the timing ect. The cam is not huge the factory steel valve covers still fit.

I adjusted the new pertronix by ear then drove a couple miles to borrow a timing light.

When I put the new motor in I replaced everything. Fuel tank, sender, lines. fuel and water pump, points, condenser, plug wires, coil, cap, hoses belts and thermostat.

I have tested flow and pressure on the pump. I have even pulled the line off after sitting for a few days and there is still pressure in the line as it spurts.

I have adjusted my choke up and down with no big impact. Most motors will fire cold but the choke keeps them running rather than having to feather it.

I'm really leaning towards some flaw with the carb.

Gun Jam

so are you getting a strong pump shot or not?

There is no reason to suspect that the accel pump diaphragm is good or that is was replaced. It should have been but thats does not mean it was.