Holly4barrell

Any sugestions on how to fix this? I have a 2005 Mustang GT stick shift with only 10,000 - problem started at around 7,000 - slight valve clattering/knocking on acceleration going from 3rd to 4th, sometimes in lower gears, but usually in 4th. I've taken it to the dealership a total of 5 times, starting back in August with the last visit two weeks ago (mid-October). They first tried to tell me it was gear noise, then they said it had to do with the fuel system- they changed out (or said they did) the fuel pump and fuel filter, even though the car only had about 8.000 miles. They've finally acknowledged that it's spark knock and has to do with the timing (what I had thought all along), but said that the 05 GT has a self-adjusting timing and they didn't know how to adjust it otherwise - i.e. they couldn't fix it. Then, the guy went on to tell me that the noise "wasn't hurting a thing" but that they would work on finding a solution - that was during my fifth visit to the dealership (each time, leaving my car for no less than 3-4 days). I've called back twice since mid-October and have gotten "still know nothing, but working on it" - even though they have not once called me. I feel as though I've just been screwed around and that they have no intentions on fixing the problem, especially since the service manager told me he felt that "it wasn't hurting a thing." I mean, if you bought a brand new car and it had a crack in the windshield, even thought it "wasn't hurting a thing" you would still expect it to be fixed, right! I told the guy, I didn't care what he had to do, even if he had to replace the engine, as long as it was fixed - of course, he commented that they wouldn't do that and he didn't know if they would be able to fix it or not. Wondered if anyone could tell me how to adjust the timing manually or what steps I should take (going over the service manager at the dealership) to get this taken care of

samseed101

So are they positive about hte solution now or are they just guessing still? Out of curiousity, what octane are you running? Try running hte highest octane fuel in the area, and maybe even add some octane booster to a tank of gas to see if that helps. If it does help, then you are either getting some bad gas, or you are having some serious pinging / detontion issues. And if that's the case, it can and will do major damage to your engine.

GreyStang

- if it's detonation you're hearing (sounds like marbles rattling in a metal can) then it can DEFINITELY hurt your motor!

- you say it makes the sound in higher gears, but at what RPM range? Is the engine lugging (low RPM) when the sound occurrs?

- take it to another dealer. Like going to the doctor,, get another opinion

[edit] - oh, and one of those handheld tuners (Predator, etc) can change your ignition timing. But if your motor is stock then you shouldn't have to do that.

Getaway

I've had a 2005 GT, and now have a 2006 GT. They both have/had this ticking noise under heavy load/acceleration. It doesn't seem to matter much what rpm I'm at as long as I'm cruising in gear then suddenly floor it. It can be heard better at mid-high rpms, but it's still there down low.

I've been searching for a cure for a long time. Here's what I've heard so far... (from Ford techs)

1. spark knock:
"The design of the engine along with it's position in the engine bay close to the firewall causes one of the cylinders to run at a higher temperature than the rest. All plugs are gapped the same, which does not compensate for this temperature difference. Changing out that plug or regapping to adjust for this temperature difference may fix the problem."..."my old turbo VW did the same thing"
2. valve lash:
"It's the design of the 3-valve heads. They're noisy, but will not harm the engine. There's nothing we can do to fix the problem."
3. injectors
"It's these darn modern cars. This Ford engine is just noisy" (me: "If it's the injectors, why only under load instead of at idle? I hear the injectors at idle, and it's not only quieter, but a different sound than what I'm describing.) **blank stare** "I dunno. There's nothing wrong, so we can't fix it."

I think #1 is worth paying attention to, but I don't know how to go about evaluating this (infrared thermometer?). As far as it "will not harm the engine", sure, until I run boost and blow the thing!

Oh, and I've also tried multiple fueling stations and higher grades of fuel without success.

turbostang21

i'll tell you there's no such noise(s) coming from my gf's 05gt...and if there was it would not leave the dealer until we were satisfied. you should not have to run more than 87 octane...but like someone said you should run the highest octane you can find (as in 93+...i would mix a few gallons of race gas in the tank...don't get "autozone" octane booster...it doesn't do anything). if it still does it with the high octane gas then it is not detonation and you can at least rule that out. the injectors are a bit noisey but certainly nothing that would be confused with detonation. i would also post this in the s197 v8 section

shifterdelux

Not sure how they do it, but if ECU uses knock sensor to constantely adjust timing then such condition is possible. Plus the problem could lie with the knock sensor. RPM range you described sounds a lot like that where knock sensors are unable to hear the knock due to too much engine noise.

Also, does 3 valve 46 engines have variable valve timing? If so, this could be the reason you hearing your noises, as valve timing or phasing is changing around that RPM.


Recommendations, run 91 octane, something good such as Marathon or Shell. Do your testing, report if you still hear the knocking. If no, then the knocking is related to octane used, i.e. you using ****ty fuel.



If you want to know 100% if you are knocking, here is a tool you can make yourself. http://www2.austin.cc.tx.us/cloud/tc_eec.htm
look at the bottom in Knock Detection section

Chopper

Noises are hard to diagnose if you can't be there to hear them.
http://www.bullittarchive.com/WebHel...escriptons.htm
This is a link that might help describe the noise.
You have said the dealer has conceded that it's detonation,this can lead to catastrophic engine damage.The lemon law might come into play here eventually.Keep ALL the paper that this and other visits to the service department generates,it will be needed to prove your case if it comes to that.Try to get the "detonation" statement in writing.
Go to another dealer.Just because one guy says one thing doesn't mean he's right.A second opinion is in order.
Call the Ford customer service number that's listed in your owners manual.Tell them what you've told us and BE NICE,but firm.Don't make threats either.You will get better results from everyone involved if they like you.Nobody likes anyone who screams at them even if you feel like it would be the thing to do.

Holly4barrell

Thanks for your advice (and everyone's). You're right about being nice - although, after being nice for five visits, and pretty much being told that I'm just crazy and too picky, it's very hard. - When I suggested that it might have something to do with the timing (also what the technician had suggested to me) the service manager told me that "my knowledge about cars was outdated with these newer models" (I'm more familiar with the older models - used to have a 65 and a 67, but this is my first newer model) and that the noise "wasn't hurting a thing." This last visit, I had them print out all my service records, and the funny thing is, the mileage was still showing at 7500, even though the car by now had 10,000 miles, and the service records that I had printed the visit before that had the same comments, etc (what had been done) as the new one I got this last visit, which kind of seems to tell me that they either a) did nothing else to the car but keep it for a week to try to appease me, or b) didn't update the service report - and, neither states anything about the spark knock being due to timing issues. I even thought that I should perhaps record the next conversation I have with the service manager in case the lemon law comes into play - in my state, recordings are permissable as evidence if at least one person in the conversation (i.e. myself) is aware that it's being recorded. I was even told by their service department cashier that I should "stay on them" because she had witness since she had been working there where at least one older lady kept coming back with the same problem, and (in her words) "they kept putting her off until her warranty was out." Luckily, I bought the extended warranty, so it's good for 100,000 miles, and that's why I'm leery of running higher octane gas since the manual calls for 87 - wonder if that could void my warranty? The dealership also had the oil changed out and put in some type of additive (at around 8,000 miles) although this wasn't listed on the service report - I'll be sure to keep the little sticker, though, in case they want to void my warranty for not having the oil changed regularly. Does anyone know if using higher octane or putting additives could possibly void my warranty if this had to go to court?

Holly4barrell

The service manager tried to tell me that this noise was "normal," but as you said, shouldn't be happening, especially with only 10,000 miles - shouldn't have to use higher octane at this low mileage, I would think.

Holly4barrell

EXACTLY! It can be around 40 mph in 4th, at 3 or 4,000 rpm, and it still does it when you gas it - only when you gas it, not when you're just cruising, and sometimes in the lower gears, too, but only when you accelerate - I can actually "make" the car do it for the service guys that "don't hear anything." Thanks for your comments - I'll definetly pass these along to the service tech, although I'll probably go to another dealership as I don't trust these guys anymore.