What is Ford going to do when the Camaro/Challenger come out...
06-05-2007, 09:51 PM
#11
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: west chester
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RE: What is Ford going to do when the Camaro/Challenger come out...
I had read that ford was originally going to bring back a pushrod versoin of the 5.0, but im reading more and more that it wont happen and they are going with the 5.0 cammer, which is 440 hp right there. Now the camaro/challenger wont be that cheap, thats what they say but it wont be, no way will they put the ls7 in the ss version and selll it for 30 grand, the same motor in the vette thats selling in excess of 70 grand. thats bs, and what 500 hp motor does mopar have, see u cant just post stuff u c once, they have no plans to build a 500 hp motor, the r/t is the 6.1 hemi and thats it. ford is gonna make a nice competition dont worry.
06-06-2007, 09:20 PM
#12
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,234
RE: What is Ford going to do when the Camaro/Challenger come out...
On one hand Ford lost it with the new 4.6. It was expensive. Engines with more than one cam were reserved for Ferraris or Lamborghinis, not a Mustang. Even after 11 years the 4.6 still doesnt have the abundance of performance parts the old 5.0 have and i doubt it ever will. Its just too expensive for most of us, not only to have repaired should something fail, but just simply replacing stock parts for aftermarket. With the old 5.0 you needed to know what the balance the motor was and its firing order. Parts were everywhere and still are. It didnt take very long for that market to spread like wildfire. Whats taking the 4.6 so long to catch up? They are good motors for racing and all around driving. They have performance potential the old 5.0 may never have had but why is the market so small? Most of my buddies had the same opinion i do. They are too expensive. Theyd rather shell out for an old tired 5.0 with mods than a 4.6 with the same mods. Why? Parts availability and the cost of those parts. Did Ford really hit a home run with these still-new 4.6 mod motors? Im still waiting and for Fords sake i hope they dont end up losing.
Now take Gm. Theyve used the same basic ohv design since its introduction in 1955. And it just keeps getting better and better. No power adders, no extra cams. Sheer brute force the old fashioned way, more cubes. Ive often asked myself (and still do) why in the world Ford couldnt the same thing with thier stuff? Fords smallest V8 is still 281 cubes, GM has well over that. GM gets my vote and props for doing what Ford apparently cant.
On the other hand maybe the 4.6 was a good thing. I think thats still yet to be seen. Im talking long term. Its a good motor and alot can be done with it. But what does the future hold?
Unless Ford can come up with a stripper Stang with about 400hp WITHOUT a power adder and for about $20g, the Camaro and Challenger will walk all over Ford after seeing what GM can squeeze out of thier box of tricks. Dont even count the GT500KR. Its not going to save Ford from anything. The Cobra will hog all of Fords glory but something tells me GM will be banging on Fords door one day with a ***** to the wall Vette that may rival that GT500KR. And it will be done with nothing more than simple displacement. They probably already have one on the drawing board. Whats Ford going to do? Offer a 650hp GT500KR LM edition? Yea, for $120g maybe lol.
Dont rule out the Challenger. That 6.1 or whatever can easily end up as a 6.5 someday if they wanted to. Or even a 7.0. Then what? Same goes for the Camaro.
Now take Gm. Theyve used the same basic ohv design since its introduction in 1955. And it just keeps getting better and better. No power adders, no extra cams. Sheer brute force the old fashioned way, more cubes. Ive often asked myself (and still do) why in the world Ford couldnt the same thing with thier stuff? Fords smallest V8 is still 281 cubes, GM has well over that. GM gets my vote and props for doing what Ford apparently cant.
On the other hand maybe the 4.6 was a good thing. I think thats still yet to be seen. Im talking long term. Its a good motor and alot can be done with it. But what does the future hold?
Unless Ford can come up with a stripper Stang with about 400hp WITHOUT a power adder and for about $20g, the Camaro and Challenger will walk all over Ford after seeing what GM can squeeze out of thier box of tricks. Dont even count the GT500KR. Its not going to save Ford from anything. The Cobra will hog all of Fords glory but something tells me GM will be banging on Fords door one day with a ***** to the wall Vette that may rival that GT500KR. And it will be done with nothing more than simple displacement. They probably already have one on the drawing board. Whats Ford going to do? Offer a 650hp GT500KR LM edition? Yea, for $120g maybe lol.
Dont rule out the Challenger. That 6.1 or whatever can easily end up as a 6.5 someday if they wanted to. Or even a 7.0. Then what? Same goes for the Camaro.
06-06-2007, 10:16 PM
#13
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
RE: What is Ford going to do when the Camaro/Challenger come out...
What has really impressed me about the new LSX engines, is not just the tremendous power they can make for thier small/moderate discplacement(relative to power anyway, ie 425hp out of 6.0L 500hp out of 7.0L) but the fact they can do it without power adders, still pass emissions(and in the case of the LS7 manage to be exempt from the federal gas guzzler tax, the only 500hp car to date to do that I believe) but they get decent mileage! They really turn into beasts with little modding, cam, intake/exhuast, and they're reliable and yeah, much simpler than overhead cam engines
06-07-2007, 03:43 PM
#14
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 4,616
RE: What is Ford going to do when the Camaro/Challenger come out...
ORIGINAL: 67mustang302
What has really impressed me about the new LSX engines, is not just the tremendous power they can make for thier small/moderate discplacement(relative to power anyway, ie 425hp out of 6.0L 500hp out of 7.0L) but the fact they can do it without power adders, still pass emissions(and in the case of the LS7 manage to be exempt from the federal gas guzzler tax, the only 500hp car to date to do that I believe) but they get decent mileage! They really turn into beasts with little modding, cam, intake/exhuast, and they're reliable and yeah, much simpler than overhead cam engines
What has really impressed me about the new LSX engines, is not just the tremendous power they can make for thier small/moderate discplacement(relative to power anyway, ie 425hp out of 6.0L 500hp out of 7.0L) but the fact they can do it without power adders, still pass emissions(and in the case of the LS7 manage to be exempt from the federal gas guzzler tax, the only 500hp car to date to do that I believe) but they get decent mileage! They really turn into beasts with little modding, cam, intake/exhuast, and they're reliable and yeah, much simpler than overhead cam engines
out of a one, . And building up from that. At this point it would be costly to SUDDENLY change that.
So a Mustang will always be a decent price compared to its counterparts.
Ill email Ford Engineering at work and ask them, they might respond back with me. I might get in trouble
[:'(]
06-07-2007, 11:00 PM
#15
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: west chester
Posts: 3,305
RE: What is Ford going to do when the Camaro/Challenger come out...
i disagree totally,I give props to ford, wit technology alone and small c.i. the 05+ 3v 4.6 has eaten up its "godly" counterpart the ls1. I think chevy just isnt particularly good at motors, just cheap. i have to say the ls1 was impressive and the sbc 350 is still the most commonly used motor out there, but thats b/c the tech is so basic like u said. well stock the 350 came wit what on average 230-240 hp at most, when the ford 5.0 was 230-240. wit 28 c.i. less doing it the old fashioned way wit small ports and a lot of torque. mopar is and has always been a company wit their heads in their u know what. the 6.1 hemi, which isnt a hemi, barely makin 420 hp, thats nothing impressive, the ford 5.0 cammer puts down 430 or so, wit a lot less ci. i am anxious to c what the future holds for all three companies. for at least two of em it wont be good thats for sure.
ORIGINAL: Blckstng93
On one hand Ford lost it with the new 4.6. It was expensive. Engines with more than one cam were reserved for Ferraris or Lamborghinis, not a Mustang. Even after 11 years the 4.6 still doesnt have the abundance of performance parts the old 5.0 have and i doubt it ever will. Its just too expensive for most of us, not only to have repaired should something fail, but just simply replacing stock parts for aftermarket. With the old 5.0 you needed to know what the balance the motor was and its firing order. Parts were everywhere and still are. It didnt take very long for that market to spread like wildfire. Whats taking the 4.6 so long to catch up? They are good motors for racing and all around driving. They have performance potential the old 5.0 may never have had but why is the market so small? Most of my buddies had the same opinion i do. They are too expensive. Theyd rather shell out for an old tired 5.0 with mods than a 4.6 with the same mods. Why? Parts availability and the cost of those parts. Did Ford really hit a home run with these still-new 4.6 mod motors? Im still waiting and for Fords sake i hope they dont end up losing.
Now take Gm. Theyve used the same basic ohv design since its introduction in 1955. And it just keeps getting better and better. No power adders, no extra cams. Sheer brute force the old fashioned way, more cubes. Ive often asked myself (and still do) why in the world Ford couldnt the same thing with thier stuff? Fords smallest V8 is still 281 cubes, GM has well over that. GM gets my vote and props for doing what Ford apparently cant.
On the other hand maybe the 4.6 was a good thing. I think thats still yet to be seen. Im talking long term. Its a good motor and alot can be done with it. But what does the future hold?
Unless Ford can come up with a stripper Stang with about 400hp WITHOUT a power adder and for about $20g, the Camaro and Challenger will walk all over Ford after seeing what GM can squeeze out of thier box of tricks. Dont even count the GT500KR. Its not going to save Ford from anything. The Cobra will hog all of Fords glory but something tells me GM will be banging on Fords door one day with a ***** to the wall Vette that may rival that GT500KR. And it will be done with nothing more than simple displacement. They probably already have one on the drawing board. Whats Ford going to do? Offer a 650hp GT500KR LM edition? Yea, for $120g maybe lol.
Dont rule out the Challenger. That 6.1 or whatever can easily end up as a 6.5 someday if they wanted to. Or even a 7.0. Then what? Same goes for the Camaro.
On one hand Ford lost it with the new 4.6. It was expensive. Engines with more than one cam were reserved for Ferraris or Lamborghinis, not a Mustang. Even after 11 years the 4.6 still doesnt have the abundance of performance parts the old 5.0 have and i doubt it ever will. Its just too expensive for most of us, not only to have repaired should something fail, but just simply replacing stock parts for aftermarket. With the old 5.0 you needed to know what the balance the motor was and its firing order. Parts were everywhere and still are. It didnt take very long for that market to spread like wildfire. Whats taking the 4.6 so long to catch up? They are good motors for racing and all around driving. They have performance potential the old 5.0 may never have had but why is the market so small? Most of my buddies had the same opinion i do. They are too expensive. Theyd rather shell out for an old tired 5.0 with mods than a 4.6 with the same mods. Why? Parts availability and the cost of those parts. Did Ford really hit a home run with these still-new 4.6 mod motors? Im still waiting and for Fords sake i hope they dont end up losing.
Now take Gm. Theyve used the same basic ohv design since its introduction in 1955. And it just keeps getting better and better. No power adders, no extra cams. Sheer brute force the old fashioned way, more cubes. Ive often asked myself (and still do) why in the world Ford couldnt the same thing with thier stuff? Fords smallest V8 is still 281 cubes, GM has well over that. GM gets my vote and props for doing what Ford apparently cant.
On the other hand maybe the 4.6 was a good thing. I think thats still yet to be seen. Im talking long term. Its a good motor and alot can be done with it. But what does the future hold?
Unless Ford can come up with a stripper Stang with about 400hp WITHOUT a power adder and for about $20g, the Camaro and Challenger will walk all over Ford after seeing what GM can squeeze out of thier box of tricks. Dont even count the GT500KR. Its not going to save Ford from anything. The Cobra will hog all of Fords glory but something tells me GM will be banging on Fords door one day with a ***** to the wall Vette that may rival that GT500KR. And it will be done with nothing more than simple displacement. They probably already have one on the drawing board. Whats Ford going to do? Offer a 650hp GT500KR LM edition? Yea, for $120g maybe lol.
Dont rule out the Challenger. That 6.1 or whatever can easily end up as a 6.5 someday if they wanted to. Or even a 7.0. Then what? Same goes for the Camaro.
06-08-2007, 04:49 AM
#16
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1
RE: What is Ford going to do when the Camaro/Challenger come out...
I personally don't think that Ford has anything to really worry about. While I'm sure those cars may dent Ford's sales, I really think that when they actually come out they'll be way over those prices quoted. The Dodge Charger RT's are around 35-42 depending on options and for the big SRT-8 Charger is around 43-45 depending on options. I think that the Mustang will still be cheaper than both of them and that will count for sales. Since I personally can't stand Chevy I really haven't been following the new Camaro too much but the new Challenger is kind of exciting to me. If they put that car out under 30 decently equipped and with many of the features Dodge is releasing on other cars I may actually have to buy my first Dodge, but I see it being more in the 35-40k range and for that price I'll just buya Mustang and put 10k into it.
06-08-2007, 12:45 PM
#17
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
RE: What is Ford going to do when the Camaro/Challenger come out...
That's a nice thing about the new Mustangs, good power at a reasonable price. Just like when it first came out, the Mustang wasn't the fastest car out there, but it was reasonably quick, and average Joe could afford one. On that point alone Ford was smart, it may only have 300hp but it can still be had for well under 30k. I doubt the new Camaro will be under 30k
