Piston.... To dish or to dish not?
09-01-2009, 05:41 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 8
Piston.... To dish or to dish not?
I have 1965 mustang, body/interior restored. With second block, 1971 Toriniro 302. I stripped it to bare. Going to rebuild it from bottom to top. About the time... I got pretty much stuff in my head what I'm gonna do with it. But what I'm trying to figure out which flat or dish top hypereutectic. It'd be 4.020" bore, I want to stick with between 9.0:1 to 9.5:1 compression ratio. For the heads, it'd be either 165cc or 185cc AirFlow Research with either 58cc or 61cc chamber, 1.6 rocker ratio. I'm talking about between 400 to 450 HP and well over 350 lbs of torque here depending which 165cc or 185cc I'm going with. Victor Jr manifold, Road Demon 650cfm. I dont mind having to use 92 octane rated pumping gas all the time.
Automatic C4. 1500 to 2500 RPM stall, havent made a final decision on what camshaft yet. I need to get that rebuilt to street/strip stage so I wouldnt worry about blowing it into piece in middle of street making rice burners cry.
Camshaft may be Comp Cam ET266, or something. I kept forgetting and I had it written down on paper somewhere. 112 seperate lope, .050" lift. Shoot, I forgot the rest of it. I'll fill out more detail after I fetch the paper that I wrote down on about camshaft. I'm also trying to figure which I should go with solid or hyd. roller for it.
Anyway, any suggestion on pistions? To dish or to dish not??
Somebody told me that one of members here would be helpful that goes by Nickmckinny or something?
Automatic C4. 1500 to 2500 RPM stall, havent made a final decision on what camshaft yet. I need to get that rebuilt to street/strip stage so I wouldnt worry about blowing it into piece in middle of street making rice burners cry.
Camshaft may be Comp Cam ET266, or something. I kept forgetting and I had it written down on paper somewhere. 112 seperate lope, .050" lift. Shoot, I forgot the rest of it. I'll fill out more detail after I fetch the paper that I wrote down on about camshaft. I'm also trying to figure which I should go with solid or hyd. roller for it.
Anyway, any suggestion on pistions? To dish or to dish not??
Somebody told me that one of members here would be helpful that goes by Nickmckinny or something?
09-02-2009, 11:32 AM
#3
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 86
A 302 with a flat top (-4cc), zero deck, and a .041 gasket will net you 9.78:1 compression. With those aluminum heads you can run 87 octane with that.
Your horsepower level are a bit ambitious for the build you are describing here. A 3.400 stroke would land you directly on that 450 HP mark...if that is really your goal.
Your horsepower level are a bit ambitious for the build you are describing here. A 3.400 stroke would land you directly on that 450 HP mark...if that is really your goal.
09-02-2009, 02:19 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 8
a bit ambitious? Check those sites out who made that possible....
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/1...orse/index.php
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...dup/index.html
http://www.airflowresearch.com/ford_dyno.php
If 400 HP isnt successed on 165cc heads, that's okay as long as it's over 350HP.
I always can swamp it to 185cc down the road if I went with 165cc first.
Yes, it's possible to get that much out of 302. Darts' CNC has high possible of matching with Airflow research to get that kind of power out of 302. It has been proven as well.
It have been a month since I've been researching on building some serious power out of 302 plus make it streetable. I'm not gonna blow 10K dollars on it like you seen those high performance and overpriced crate.
As Arron himself from Badasscars.com said, you want serious power then you gotta get quality parts, not cheap part for longetivy. So, I've been looking at good quality parts and etc. I know it will hurt my wallet little more than 5K to 7K budget. I'm doing my best to get right parts here and there at first place.
And, Mark... Thank you for your recommend, I like it. But one thing bothers me. Old pistons came out of 302 is dish. And I'm just trying to figure out if flat head wouldnt any problem with AFR heads. I'm waiting to hear from AFR tech on piston part. Compression ratio that you said, I like it alot... I really do... Look like I'd be going with that.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/1...orse/index.php
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...dup/index.html
http://www.airflowresearch.com/ford_dyno.php
If 400 HP isnt successed on 165cc heads, that's okay as long as it's over 350HP.
I always can swamp it to 185cc down the road if I went with 165cc first.
Yes, it's possible to get that much out of 302. Darts' CNC has high possible of matching with Airflow research to get that kind of power out of 302. It has been proven as well.
It have been a month since I've been researching on building some serious power out of 302 plus make it streetable. I'm not gonna blow 10K dollars on it like you seen those high performance and overpriced crate.
As Arron himself from Badasscars.com said, you want serious power then you gotta get quality parts, not cheap part for longetivy. So, I've been looking at good quality parts and etc. I know it will hurt my wallet little more than 5K to 7K budget. I'm doing my best to get right parts here and there at first place.
And, Mark... Thank you for your recommend, I like it. But one thing bothers me. Old pistons came out of 302 is dish. And I'm just trying to figure out if flat head wouldnt any problem with AFR heads. I'm waiting to hear from AFR tech on piston part. Compression ratio that you said, I like it alot... I really do... Look like I'd be going with that.
09-02-2009, 02:25 PM
#5
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: California
Posts: 10,468
Don't always believe dyno numbers. Firstly they can be fudged to say what you want them to, and secondly you have no idea what type of dyno or testing procedure they used. Often they'll test the engines in ideal atmospheric conditions with no accessories, which can result in power output numbers that are 10% higher or more than they'll actually produce. That's the whole idea behind the newer "SAE Certified Horsepower" testing standard, to get rid of all the BS power ratings. I've yet to see even 1 magazine perform dyno testing at least to the SAE Cert standard, let alone actually get SAE Certified ratings on their test.
09-02-2009, 03:41 PM
#8
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: CA
Posts: 86
I used the 450 HP mark....I'll never go for the small one.
I do several hundred 347's a year and I make pistons for a living so I've gotten pretty used to the results.
You can make HP with 302....but you do it with RPM. It's more reliable with inches.
A 347 with 185 heads, flat top pistons, and a cam around 235/245 and 580 lift is 450 to 475 HP and is a great driver.
In a stock block there is never a real reason to run anything but a cast steel crank so a kit is somewhere around $900.00.
Cheap fun.......
I do several hundred 347's a year and I make pistons for a living so I've gotten pretty used to the results.
You can make HP with 302....but you do it with RPM. It's more reliable with inches.
A 347 with 185 heads, flat top pistons, and a cam around 235/245 and 580 lift is 450 to 475 HP and is a great driver.
In a stock block there is never a real reason to run anything but a cast steel crank so a kit is somewhere around $900.00.
Cheap fun.......
