Jfsram

You are talking about a repeated measured braking situation. Repeated has many advantages. You can learn the threshold and friction of the road surface. Under those conditions I do agree you can come close and sometimes beat some ABS systems. Also understand not all abs systems are created equal. Some faster than others.

Another situation of deep snow. A non abs car will pile snow in front of the 4 locked wheels and stop shorter than a ABS car which is constantly rolling OVER the snow.

If you need the other situations spelled out for you, I will mention a couple.

In a "S" bend that is followed by a corner. Popular situation in road racing and autocrossing. You need to brake with 2 wheels basically unloaded because the car is leaning from the first turn in the S bend. With a non abs car that threshold of braking will not allow you to brake hard. With an ABS car you can fully plant the brake pedal, the computer will thresoldhold all 4 brakes separately, allowing you to brake later and steer which equals faster lap times.

Another situation is during nose dive. You will need to release the brake pedal a bit to prevent the rear wheels from locking up. ABS equipped, full braking, the computer will release the rears only, a bit. Allowing again for shorter, faster stops.

Elevation change. Going up a hill, then braking. A non abs car will need to brake before the top of the hill. An ABS car can brake hard even at the crest of the hill where the 4 wheels are basically dangling because the inertia from climbing the hill has unloaded the tires.

So non abs better. Not in many situations and in the real world ability to brake hard and steer is better than braking then releasing the brakes and steering.

Threshold braking is an admired skill but the fact is you will always be releasing the brake pedal pressure to avoid wheel lock up by 1, 2, 3 or 4 wheels.
ABS allows for MAXIMUM braking by all 4 wheels.

67mustang302

If the car is set up properly and you know how to drive it, you'll outperform ABS, or at least have a more predictable car. It is harder to manage it and you have to know how to drive, but it can be done. We train with heavy braking through s-bends and have to stop inside a box at the end of the bend as well, not just straight lines. All our training is so we can drive half million dollar prototypes that will eventually become production vehicles without them getting damaged during testing, with on track and on highway driving...all of them have ABS disabled.

ABS is great for 99% of drivers whose first instinct is to just stand on the brakes. But if you know how to drive, and more importantly know how to keep yourself properly spaced and anticipate situations, you should never need ABS.

The other thing to keep in mind is that while a car with ABS CAN turn with the ABS engaged, steering response is limited...it causes the vehicle to understeer heavily. You can turn better under heavy braking without ABS and a bit of tire squeal than you can under heavy braking where the ABS would normally start engaging.

Mirage

Dont brake like a dipwad and you wont need it. ABS only helps if you lock the tires, learn how to brake correctly and you will save yourself alot of hassle.

hiboostwoody

This is a classic example of people not taking the time to learn or teach the proper way to do things because they rely so much on everything being done for them anymore. I continue to be amazed at the amount of parents that will let their kids get a driver's license when they have not had proper driver's training and VERY little time behind the wheel yet when they get their license they are handed the keys to a 4,000 pound weapon and nobody thinks anything of it. Then the parents wonder why the kid has wrecked the car two weeks later. I learned to drive in cars that didn't have ABS and grew up driving cars that didn't have ABS. Hell, I don't think they even HAD such a thing as ABS when I was taught to drive. Now, whenever I am in a braking situation that the ABS takes over, I find it annoying and quite frankly kind of dangerous. Bottom line, EVERYONE should learn how to drive the proper way without ABS. That way if the system ever fails, and you KNOW that they can, will and do, you can still operate that 4,000 pound weapon safely.

yamanx

Ok you all are missing the point, I want ABS for sake of ease and to be honest we have a lot black ice out here in the Winter and Ford ABS is one of the only ones I've seen that on ice you can just mash the brakes and you do stop. And I don't know about you all but I know **** happens on the road and I'd rather have one more thing help keep my baby safe and myself. But thank you all for the input and the instant assumption that if I need ABS I obviously just need to learn to brake.

98redstang

Not standard at all lol. It was optional. I dont have abs.

chronos

I know for a fact there wasn't anything called ABS when I learned to drive. It didn't come around till 10 years or so after I already had my license.

No, Mustangs still do not have ABS as standard. I just got an 09 and no ABS. I don't mind is since I see it as one more very costly item to brake down. One thing I have found that helps a lot and is a heck of a lot cheaper than ABS is to leave plenty of room in front of you for reaction time.

While I agree it's not worth the time, money and effort to put the system in, I do think it uses the same computer, it is just not programed for ABS. This then means you have to either find a computer for your model year that is programmed for ABS or get your reprogrammed. The latter part I think would be iffy at best since even Ford Dealers don't know how to do a lot of stuff. Go ask some questions of a Ford tech and you'll get a blank stare. Let's face it they are just like most people today. They learn what they need to get the job done, nothing more. Few people take an interest in things beyond the confines of what they need to get the job done. I would be more afraid that after you went through all that time, trouble and expense the system might not work when you needed it to. You're better off getting a car that already has one installed from the factory. Heck, if you have the money to put in a ABS system, why don't you go put a down payment on a new S197, you'll be happier that way?

67mustang302

No, you're missing the point. Things like ABS and traction control don't make a car safer to drive. SAFER DRIVING makes a car safer to drive. All the ABS and TC in the world WILL NOT HELP if you enter a turn too fast, are following too closely or are driving too fast or cornering too hard on ice. The purpose of ABS is ENTIRELY to provide SOME braking and SOME steering when a driver PANICS....it is NOT to make the car stop faster(a popular misconception). Same thing with TC, it is NOT to make a car handle better, it's too allow someone to control a car more easily when they drive beyond their ability, or to allow SOME amount of control when they drive the car past it's limits(ie, rather than spinning out or staying in an uncontrolled skid the car maintains SOME of it's handling and steering characteristics making it easier to recover).

Honestly if you want to be safer, then go to some place like the Bondurant School of Driving, or a school that teaches something like the smith Driving System along with high performance braking/evasion techniques. It will cost way less money then trying to stick ABS in a non ABS car, and you'll be 100x safer when driving. No traction device is a substitute for good driving...a car has a certain amount of energy and the tires only have so much adhesion, and no traction device can defy those simple laws of physics.

Jfsram

I doubt any of us, maybe except for yourself can be included in "those who know how to drive". According to you it's only 1%.

ABS is for the 99% of us drivers AND 99% of emergency situations.

So under test conditions, again. I've also seen non abs beat abs in stopping distance but thrown in weight distribution, leaning, elevation change, rain and it's all out the window.

You've placed the arguement in a nutshell but the fact is both systems have their place. A ABS equipped car does not need to engage ABS in all braking situation.

Another braking situation I've played with is adjusting front and rear braking balance. There is no perfect set up. If you take the same car and brake on a good grippy surface. It will transfer more weight up front and then it can take advantage of more front braking power for short stops. Here your pro driver will threshold brake to the limit of the rear brake lock up and when he releases pedal pressure, it also releases front braking power, increasing the stopping distance.
Take that same car and brake on a slippery surface. It will not transfer weight forward as well. This will then need more rear brake balance as the front try to easily lock up. So here is the pro driver on this well balanced car releasing pedal pressure to avoid front lock up and when he does so he's also reducing rear braking power.
So 2 situations, same car. Maybe even a pro driver. ABS will maximum brake all 4 wheels in both situations.

98redstang

okay i wasnt gonna say anything but why are you being such an idiot with the abs crap. It wouldn't be standard on most cars today if it was pointless. I guarantee if me and you went out when it was raining me with abs and you without it and we went the same speed and both slammed on the brakes i would stop first. Yes if you take in account following distance and other driver error it doesnt matter what you have. But ill tell you right now i hate when i have to stop hard in the rain. ANd no its not cause im speeding or following to close it could be something simple as coming up to a yellow light.