Roushcharger running lean
06-15-2006, 02:58 PM
#11
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RE: Roushcharger running lean
Well, after 3 days at the dealer and numorous phone calls to Roush they concluded there's nothing wrong with my car?? The dealer doesn't have the ability to check the A/F ratio so I'm not sure they have come to this conclusion. I guess I will be going yet another dyno shop to have them check it. According to Roush there is only one tune for the Mustang. I wonder if the fuel pump could be the issue??
Did you pose the question to Roush, "what happens if I throw a rod from it running too lean?" That's the way you need to phrase it to them. And, btw, I have never seen a Saleen blower and tune do this so early in the rpm band. One thing that is working against you is that the Roushcharger is a roots blower, is pretty outdated, and is pretty inefficient once it gets hot, and can promote lean issues. Deal with the dealer you got it from. Contact the service manager, and ask him what happens once your car throws a rod. If it was me, I would scrap the Roush tune alltogether, and tune it myself. I don't trust Roush. And it really make sme mad when I hear things like this concerning Roush. They should be bending over backwards to help your 'incorect' setup.
06-15-2006, 04:18 PM
#12
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RE: Roushcharger running lean
Based on the Roush warranty, they are limited to $5,000.00 total downside on the engine. Sounds like maybe they are willing to gamble that they may have to write that off instead of flying someone down to help diagnose the problem. What would it have hurt for Roush to re-flash your PCM in case the code had been corrupted somehow? I would also like to believe that all Roush tunes are not the same. If they are all the same, that would mean that they have not made any improvements to the code as problems were encountered. Scary thought. Anyway, why not eliminate the tune as a possible problem with a simple re-flash.
I'm very concerned that Joe Myer's cannot diagnose this problem themselves without having to rely on Roush. If they are going to install the s/c (at a hefty profit) and call themselves a Roush dealership they should be able to do simple diagnosics locally so Roush can make long distance recomendations. I don't want to come down too hard on the dealership because they have been pretty square with me so far, but why the hell can't they measure air/fuel ratios? Do you have to have a dyno to do that? Sounds to me like the dealership is sort of boxed in here, though, especially since Roush is telling them 13:1 is OK. If Roush is willing to take the risk, and it sounds like they are, Joe Myers can't bill them for any diagnostic work, even if they could perform it.
I wonder if you can find anything written by Ford to support that a 13:1 mix is outside safe parameters for the engine? Maybe Joe Myer's can help you with that. That could help you in your argument with Roush.
Good luck.
I'm very concerned that Joe Myer's cannot diagnose this problem themselves without having to rely on Roush. If they are going to install the s/c (at a hefty profit) and call themselves a Roush dealership they should be able to do simple diagnosics locally so Roush can make long distance recomendations. I don't want to come down too hard on the dealership because they have been pretty square with me so far, but why the hell can't they measure air/fuel ratios? Do you have to have a dyno to do that? Sounds to me like the dealership is sort of boxed in here, though, especially since Roush is telling them 13:1 is OK. If Roush is willing to take the risk, and it sounds like they are, Joe Myers can't bill them for any diagnostic work, even if they could perform it.
I wonder if you can find anything written by Ford to support that a 13:1 mix is outside safe parameters for the engine? Maybe Joe Myer's can help you with that. That could help you in your argument with Roush.
Good luck.
06-15-2006, 04:31 PM
#13
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RE: Roushcharger running lean
I originally made this post in the Saleen/Roush section in April. Plese read.
https://mustangforums.com/m_1302796/tm.htm
https://mustangforums.com/m_1302796/tm.htm
06-15-2006, 04:48 PM
#14
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RE: Roushcharger running lean
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...arger_install/
Copy and paste this into your browser and read it. The article references updated ECM programing from Roush. See page two, the sentence "What was unexpected was what appeared to be a severely rich issue we encountered after the dyno pulls on our way home. Everything was fine until we were about 20 miles from the shop, when the car began stumbling and losing power. After contacting Roush, we were informed of a spark plug fouling issue that they believed they had solved with the latest ECM tune they had sent us."
I couldn't find a date on the article, but it is pretty good evidence that Roush tweeks their ECM code to make improvements, as they should.
On the same page (see the dyno result pic), you can see that they were running 12.9:1 a/f ratio.
Copy and paste this into your browser and read it. The article references updated ECM programing from Roush. See page two, the sentence "What was unexpected was what appeared to be a severely rich issue we encountered after the dyno pulls on our way home. Everything was fine until we were about 20 miles from the shop, when the car began stumbling and losing power. After contacting Roush, we were informed of a spark plug fouling issue that they believed they had solved with the latest ECM tune they had sent us."
I couldn't find a date on the article, but it is pretty good evidence that Roush tweeks their ECM code to make improvements, as they should.
On the same page (see the dyno result pic), you can see that they were running 12.9:1 a/f ratio.
06-15-2006, 08:05 PM
#15
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RE: Roushcharger running lean
Roush basically said they don't believe the A/F was completely acurate from the dyno shop. I dunno. But if it breaks I guess Roush will be on the hooks for the repairs. I had the dyno done at PSI in Webster. I'm going to try and get another dyno done at another place just to compare the differences. I'd be real interested to see if yours dyno's differently. If you go to get it done let me know and I'll have mine done at the same time.
06-16-2006, 02:42 PM
#16
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RE: Roushcharger running lean
But if it breaks I guess Roush will be on the hooks for the repairs.
06-16-2006, 03:52 PM
#17
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RE: Roushcharger running lean
Good idea to get it checked again Gregt909. I don't have very much confidence in PSI. I don't know how you can get a "bad" dyno but I do have to say I was not impressed with them. I don't wan to bash on them as that was the first time I have been to a shop, but I will just say that the things he did to my car were ...umm...less than perfect. Maybe he was pressed for time(rushed), maybe he just didn't know how to do it right for an automatic...I don't know. Could have been just simple mistakes as well. Everyone has a bad day from time to time, but I didn't like what I heard and what I experienced nailed it for me. But remember I know nothing so what I heard might have been good and I just didn't know enough to realize it. But hey...I know he tried and I just wasn't happy. Happens to everyone form time to time.
The "people who know" here on the forum agree it is not right, but it might be for your car. Get a secon opinion and then you will have a better gauge I think.
Well there's my 2 cents worth...maybe 3 cents worth
The "people who know" here on the forum agree it is not right, but it might be for your car. Get a secon opinion and then you will have a better gauge I think.
Well there's my 2 cents worth...maybe 3 cents worth
06-16-2006, 06:06 PM
#18
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RE: Roushcharger running lean
ORIGINAL: Birdieman4
...Well, that's Roush service for ya. Ok, a few things here. First of all, your car is not correct at this point, and with summer right around the corner, it will be even leaner in the heat. (Which scares me) What octane are you running? Put in the highest octane gas you can get for now. Also, until it's fixed, do not take your car over 4000 rpm. At all.
Did you pose the question to Roush, "what happens if I throw a rod from it running too lean?" That's the way you need to phrase it to them. And, btw, I have never seen a Saleen blower and tune do this so early in the rpm band. One thing that is working against you is that the Roushcharger is a roots blower, is pretty outdated, and is pretty inefficient once it gets hot, and can promote lean issues. Deal with the dealer you got it from. Contact the service manager, and ask him what happens once your car throws a rod. If it was me, I would scrap the Roush tune alltogether, and tune it myself. I don't trust Roush. And it really make sme mad when I hear things like this concerning Roush. They should be bending over backwards to help your 'incorect' setup.
Well, after 3 days at the dealer and numorous phone calls to Roush they concluded there's nothing wrong with my car?? The dealer doesn't have the ability to check the A/F ratio so I'm not sure they have come to this conclusion. I guess I will be going yet another dyno shop to have them check it. According to Roush there is only one tune for the Mustang. I wonder if the fuel pump could be the issue??
Did you pose the question to Roush, "what happens if I throw a rod from it running too lean?" That's the way you need to phrase it to them. And, btw, I have never seen a Saleen blower and tune do this so early in the rpm band. One thing that is working against you is that the Roushcharger is a roots blower, is pretty outdated, and is pretty inefficient once it gets hot, and can promote lean issues. Deal with the dealer you got it from. Contact the service manager, and ask him what happens once your car throws a rod. If it was me, I would scrap the Roush tune alltogether, and tune it myself. I don't trust Roush. And it really make sme mad when I hear things like this concerning Roush. They should be bending over backwards to help your 'incorect' setup.
06-16-2006, 06:46 PM
#20
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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RE: Roushcharger running lean
ORIGINAL: CrazyHorse0217
Based on the Roush warranty, they are limited to $5,000.00 total downside on the engine. Sounds like maybe they are willing to gamble that they may have to write that off instead of flying someone down to help diagnose the problem. What would it have hurt for Roush to re-flash your PCM in case the code had been corrupted somehow? I would also like to believe that all Roush tunes are not the same. If they are all the same, that would mean that they have not made any improvements to the code as problems were encountered. Scary thought. Anyway, why not eliminate the tune as a possible problem with a simple re-flash.
I'm very concerned that Joe Myer's cannot diagnose this problem themselves without having to rely on Roush. If they are going to install the s/c (at a hefty profit) and call themselves a Roush dealership they should be able to do simple diagnosics locally so Roush can make long distance recomendations. I don't want to come down too hard on the dealership because they have been pretty square with me so far, but why the hell can't they measure air/fuel ratios? Do you have to have a dyno to do that? Sounds to me like the dealership is sort of boxed in here, though, especially since Roush is telling them 13:1 is OK. If Roush is willing to take the risk, and it sounds like they are, Joe Myers can't bill them for any diagnostic work, even if they could perform it.
I wonder if you can find anything written by Ford to support that a 13:1 mix is outside safe parameters for the engine? Maybe Joe Myer's can help you with that. That could help you in your argument with Roush.
Good luck.
I'm sorry, I said Rouse only has one flash, which they do but they have done some updates to it. They did check to make sure I had the latest version which I was told came out on Feb 3rd. Roush does acknowledge that 13 would be too high for the A/F but the engineer said anything up to 12.5 was fine. Roush believes the dyno was reading incorrectly high.
Based on the Roush warranty, they are limited to $5,000.00 total downside on the engine. Sounds like maybe they are willing to gamble that they may have to write that off instead of flying someone down to help diagnose the problem. What would it have hurt for Roush to re-flash your PCM in case the code had been corrupted somehow? I would also like to believe that all Roush tunes are not the same. If they are all the same, that would mean that they have not made any improvements to the code as problems were encountered. Scary thought. Anyway, why not eliminate the tune as a possible problem with a simple re-flash.
I'm very concerned that Joe Myer's cannot diagnose this problem themselves without having to rely on Roush. If they are going to install the s/c (at a hefty profit) and call themselves a Roush dealership they should be able to do simple diagnosics locally so Roush can make long distance recomendations. I don't want to come down too hard on the dealership because they have been pretty square with me so far, but why the hell can't they measure air/fuel ratios? Do you have to have a dyno to do that? Sounds to me like the dealership is sort of boxed in here, though, especially since Roush is telling them 13:1 is OK. If Roush is willing to take the risk, and it sounds like they are, Joe Myers can't bill them for any diagnostic work, even if they could perform it.
I wonder if you can find anything written by Ford to support that a 13:1 mix is outside safe parameters for the engine? Maybe Joe Myer's can help you with that. That could help you in your argument with Roush.
Good luck.
I'm sorry, I said Rouse only has one flash, which they do but they have done some updates to it. They did check to make sure I had the latest version which I was told came out on Feb 3rd. Roush does acknowledge that 13 would be too high for the A/F but the engineer said anything up to 12.5 was fine. Roush believes the dyno was reading incorrectly high.