plastic vs metal CAI ?? Help
10-15-2006, 04:09 PM
#21
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,225
RE: plastic vs metal CAI ?? Help
ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147
Noice. Did you powdercoat the racer tube......or does it come like that?
I also see you built a bigger intercooler fluid reservoir.......and went with all braided metal hoses.
[Sigh] When I think of all the things I'm gonna want to do when I upgrade to 10psi......my wallet starts to cry
Noice. Did you powdercoat the racer tube......or does it come like that?
I also see you built a bigger intercooler fluid reservoir.......and went with all braided metal hoses.
[Sigh] When I think of all the things I'm gonna want to do when I upgrade to 10psi......my wallet starts to cry
Yea, the Saleen intercooler reservoir is a complete joke. So I relocated the PS reservoir to where the Saleen reservoir should be, and installed a Shelby GT500 intercooler reservoir where the PS reservoir goes. Increased cooling capacity by about 50% and only cost maybe $75 total including hoses, barbs and clamps.
ORIGINAL: Sonic Boom NH
I am currently looking at purchasing the C&L intake with XCal2. I personally like the looks of the plastic better then the metal ones. My question would be do they both flow the same amount of air? Are they the same size? I don't plan on big mods, most likely as far as hp adders the intake and programmer will be about it as I don't intend on having a blower.
I keep reading about people should "only" get the C&L "racer" (plastic) if they plan on big time mods so I am trying to understand why that is. I know most perfer the looks of metal under the hood but I perfer the looks of the plastic version better.
I am currently looking at purchasing the C&L intake with XCal2. I personally like the looks of the plastic better then the metal ones. My question would be do they both flow the same amount of air? Are they the same size? I don't plan on big mods, most likely as far as hp adders the intake and programmer will be about it as I don't intend on having a blower.
I keep reading about people should "only" get the C&L "racer" (plastic) if they plan on big time mods so I am trying to understand why that is. I know most perfer the looks of metal under the hood but I perfer the looks of the plastic version better.
ORIGINAL: JP DeMolet
I've NEVER had a system recalled due to plastic warpage.
I've NEVER had a system recalled due to plastic warpage.
And again I point out, it was the first generation version. This was back when he first started producing his version of CAI for the S197s.
ORIGINAL: Andys06GT
just read an article where they used a comp cam and bbk throttle body. they originally used the c&l 83mm intake, and gained 6 rwhp switching to the plastic 95mm racer kit. this was all done an a naturally aspirated setup. they actually stated with a stock configuration, the metal would be a better choice, as you wouldnt be throwing to much unneeded air in, and it gives less to regulate. however, if you were looking at a setup that could make use of the added airflow, the 95mm will produce gains, albeit small ones. but hey, for the money, 6hp is 6hp right? and yes, the air temperature is less with the plastic intake tubes, but again, would you really notice it in day to day driving or even WOT ifthat was the only thing you had? you would have to have an engine that needed and used the added dense air. it doesnt hurt to have the racer, especially if your plan is to move up. you could also talk to brenspeed, as they have done testing with the comp cam they carry. here is their testing article http://www.brenspeed.com/tech/compcams.html pretty much the same observations and data. think they only added 5 hp. but its still a gain.
just read an article where they used a comp cam and bbk throttle body. they originally used the c&l 83mm intake, and gained 6 rwhp switching to the plastic 95mm racer kit. this was all done an a naturally aspirated setup. they actually stated with a stock configuration, the metal would be a better choice, as you wouldnt be throwing to much unneeded air in, and it gives less to regulate. however, if you were looking at a setup that could make use of the added airflow, the 95mm will produce gains, albeit small ones. but hey, for the money, 6hp is 6hp right? and yes, the air temperature is less with the plastic intake tubes, but again, would you really notice it in day to day driving or even WOT ifthat was the only thing you had? you would have to have an engine that needed and used the added dense air. it doesnt hurt to have the racer, especially if your plan is to move up. you could also talk to brenspeed, as they have done testing with the comp cam they carry. here is their testing article http://www.brenspeed.com/tech/compcams.html pretty much the same observations and data. think they only added 5 hp. but its still a gain.
10-15-2006, 07:36 PM
#22
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location:
Posts: 334
RE: plastic vs metal CAI ?? Help
ORIGINAL: hawgman
The racer tube is larger than the street tube, and flows more air. If you are going to just do the CAI, don't get the racer tube. You will see better gains from the street version.
The racer tube is larger than the street tube, and flows more air. If you are going to just do the CAI, don't get the racer tube. You will see better gains from the street version.
10-15-2006, 09:00 PM
#23
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,225
RE: plastic vs metal CAI ?? Help
I actually prefer the look of the metal tube over the plastic. When my car was NA and I was running the metal tube I had it polished. Looked pretty damn nice.
If anyone wants a polished C&L intake tube ( not the entire CAI, I never owned a C&L CAI. Just the intake tube ) shoot me a PM. I have no use for it anymore.
Here is a pictue of what one looks like polished ( wow... haven't seen my car look like this in quite a while! )
[IMG]local://upfiles/13513/E9B0F809E7A54177800AD7D12ECF6671.jpg[/IMG]
If anyone wants a polished C&L intake tube ( not the entire CAI, I never owned a C&L CAI. Just the intake tube ) shoot me a PM. I have no use for it anymore.
Here is a pictue of what one looks like polished ( wow... haven't seen my car look like this in quite a while! )
[IMG]local://upfiles/13513/E9B0F809E7A54177800AD7D12ECF6671.jpg[/IMG]
10-16-2006, 02:11 AM
#24
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 4,197
RE: plastic vs metal CAI ?? Help
ORIGINAL: hawgman
Yea, the Saleen intercooler reservoir is a complete joke. So I relocated the PS reservoir to where the Saleen reservoir should be, and installed a Shelby GT500 intercooler reservoir where the PS reservoir goes. Increased cooling capacity by about 50% and only cost maybe $75 total including hoses, barbs and clamps.
Yea, the Saleen intercooler reservoir is a complete joke. So I relocated the PS reservoir to where the Saleen reservoir should be, and installed a Shelby GT500 intercooler reservoir where the PS reservoir goes. Increased cooling capacity by about 50% and only cost maybe $75 total including hoses, barbs and clamps.
10-16-2006, 09:36 AM
#25
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 70
RE: plastic vs metal CAI ?? Help
ORIGINAL: hawgman
That is what the racer tube looks like. I haven't done anything to it cosmetically. I have done some more braid and added hump hoses to it in place of the stock blue silicone hoses though.
Yea, the Saleen intercooler reservoir is a complete joke. So I relocated the PS reservoir to where the Saleen reservoir should be, and installed a Shelby GT500 intercooler reservoir where the PS reservoir goes. Increased cooling capacity by about 50% and only cost maybe $75 total including hoses, barbs and clamps.
The racer tube is larger than the street tube, and flows more air. If you are going to just do the CAI, don't get the racer tube. You will see better gains from the street version.
Never said that you did. No need to jump in and be defensive. But Jay Tucker sure as hell had plenty of issues with his JLT first generation version ( which is exactly what I said in my post ). There are plenty of threads on TMS discussing the warpage and the fix he released for it.
And again I point out, it was the first generation version. This was back when he first started producing his version of CAI for the S197s.
Pretty much what I have said three times now in this thread alone.
ORIGINAL: ThisBlood147
Noice. Did you powdercoat the racer tube......or does it come like that?
I also see you built a bigger intercooler fluid reservoir.......and went with all braided metal hoses.
[Sigh] When I think of all the things I'm gonna want to do when I upgrade to 10psi......my wallet starts to cry
Noice. Did you powdercoat the racer tube......or does it come like that?
I also see you built a bigger intercooler fluid reservoir.......and went with all braided metal hoses.
[Sigh] When I think of all the things I'm gonna want to do when I upgrade to 10psi......my wallet starts to cry
Yea, the Saleen intercooler reservoir is a complete joke. So I relocated the PS reservoir to where the Saleen reservoir should be, and installed a Shelby GT500 intercooler reservoir where the PS reservoir goes. Increased cooling capacity by about 50% and only cost maybe $75 total including hoses, barbs and clamps.
ORIGINAL: Sonic Boom NH
I am currently looking at purchasing the C&L intake with XCal2. I personally like the looks of the plastic better then the metal ones. My question would be do they both flow the same amount of air? Are they the same size? I don't plan on big mods, most likely as far as hp adders the intake and programmer will be about it as I don't intend on having a blower.
I keep reading about people should "only" get the C&L "racer" (plastic) if they plan on big time mods so I am trying to understand why that is. I know most perfer the looks of metal under the hood but I perfer the looks of the plastic version better.
I am currently looking at purchasing the C&L intake with XCal2. I personally like the looks of the plastic better then the metal ones. My question would be do they both flow the same amount of air? Are they the same size? I don't plan on big mods, most likely as far as hp adders the intake and programmer will be about it as I don't intend on having a blower.
I keep reading about people should "only" get the C&L "racer" (plastic) if they plan on big time mods so I am trying to understand why that is. I know most perfer the looks of metal under the hood but I perfer the looks of the plastic version better.
ORIGINAL: JP DeMolet
I've NEVER had a system recalled due to plastic warpage.
I've NEVER had a system recalled due to plastic warpage.
And again I point out, it was the first generation version. This was back when he first started producing his version of CAI for the S197s.
ORIGINAL: Andys06GT
just read an article where they used a comp cam and bbk throttle body. they originally used the c&l 83mm intake, and gained 6 rwhp switching to the plastic 95mm racer kit. this was all done an a naturally aspirated setup. they actually stated with a stock configuration, the metal would be a better choice, as you wouldnt be throwing to much unneeded air in, and it gives less to regulate. however, if you were looking at a setup that could make use of the added airflow, the 95mm will produce gains, albeit small ones. but hey, for the money, 6hp is 6hp right? and yes, the air temperature is less with the plastic intake tubes, but again, would you really notice it in day to day driving or even WOT ifthat was the only thing you had? you would have to have an engine that needed and used the added dense air. it doesnt hurt to have the racer, especially if your plan is to move up. you could also talk to brenspeed, as they have done testing with the comp cam they carry. here is their testing article http://www.brenspeed.com/tech/compcams.html pretty much the same observations and data. think they only added 5 hp. but its still a gain.
just read an article where they used a comp cam and bbk throttle body. they originally used the c&l 83mm intake, and gained 6 rwhp switching to the plastic 95mm racer kit. this was all done an a naturally aspirated setup. they actually stated with a stock configuration, the metal would be a better choice, as you wouldnt be throwing to much unneeded air in, and it gives less to regulate. however, if you were looking at a setup that could make use of the added airflow, the 95mm will produce gains, albeit small ones. but hey, for the money, 6hp is 6hp right? and yes, the air temperature is less with the plastic intake tubes, but again, would you really notice it in day to day driving or even WOT ifthat was the only thing you had? you would have to have an engine that needed and used the added dense air. it doesnt hurt to have the racer, especially if your plan is to move up. you could also talk to brenspeed, as they have done testing with the comp cam they carry. here is their testing article http://www.brenspeed.com/tech/compcams.html pretty much the same observations and data. think they only added 5 hp. but its still a gain.
I wasn't trying to be defensive. With all the aformentioned problems with the plastic I just wanted my customers, and potential customers, to be aware that all plastics aren't created equal and my warranty claims status on the system.
Either my system or the C&L racer will deliver many years of great performance.
I had the first plastic one with the 95mm meter. Then C&L came out with a plastic one with IRONICALLY a 95mm meter. Hmm.
The difference between the 2 systems is mine is a 'stepped' design : I open up the airflow to the TB in 'steps' 95mm/100mm/110mm airflow rather than going with a molded one piece TB pipe. It would be cheaper, and I was initially going with a one piece TB pipe but the stepped design works GREAT !!
The C&L vs. TI article on my site shows the differences with HP & tuning with the 'stepped' design 95mm meter.
10-17-2006, 04:42 AM
#26
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,090
RE: plastic vs metal CAI ?? Help
ORIGINAL: BoidMorphs
I doubt there's any difference in heat transfer between plastic vs. metal for the reason already stated (time of contact with rapidly moving air). The one thing I do remember is a thread about a guy that had a plastic K&N CAI that partially melted and distorted from excessive heat in the engine bay. As I recall, he was from the Southwest US and it's not hard to imagine this happening in AZ or similar arid areas. The plastic tube dislodged from the intake manifold causing the engine to run very lean which subsequently ruined it.
This is a valid reason why NOT to buy a plastic one over a metal intake because in this case it cost this person an engine that was NOT covered under warranty!
I doubt there's any difference in heat transfer between plastic vs. metal for the reason already stated (time of contact with rapidly moving air). The one thing I do remember is a thread about a guy that had a plastic K&N CAI that partially melted and distorted from excessive heat in the engine bay. As I recall, he was from the Southwest US and it's not hard to imagine this happening in AZ or similar arid areas. The plastic tube dislodged from the intake manifold causing the engine to run very lean which subsequently ruined it.
This is a valid reason why NOT to buy a plastic one over a metal intake because in this case it cost this person an engine that was NOT covered under warranty!
ATt. Andrew
10-17-2006, 09:34 AM
#27
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 70
RE: plastic vs metal CAI ?? Help
My local GT customers going in for state inspections/servicing are all relating the same thing:
That after you've put it back to stock you have to run it for 50 miles to not show up anything questionable on the computer.
The good thing about my local dealer is that they're sending me customers and haven't been adversarial after a couple of the salesmen purchased a couple of the first production systems for their GTs.
I wish all dealers were like this!
The injected molded plastic pieces are much thinner than the 1/4" thick TB pipe that I use and this may have something to do with the problem mentioned in the above post. 200,000 miles on my own 5.0 with the same intake construction has shown no adverse heat affects with the 1/4" construction.
Plus either the 2-stage factory paint or the carbon fiber will add further heat insulation over the plastic. You just can't have the plastic in contact with direct heat sources like the radiator hoses. The polycarbonates will go to 240 degrees heat resistance and why I suspend /surround the system with the polycarbs.
That after you've put it back to stock you have to run it for 50 miles to not show up anything questionable on the computer.
The good thing about my local dealer is that they're sending me customers and haven't been adversarial after a couple of the salesmen purchased a couple of the first production systems for their GTs.
I wish all dealers were like this!
The injected molded plastic pieces are much thinner than the 1/4" thick TB pipe that I use and this may have something to do with the problem mentioned in the above post. 200,000 miles on my own 5.0 with the same intake construction has shown no adverse heat affects with the 1/4" construction.
Plus either the 2-stage factory paint or the carbon fiber will add further heat insulation over the plastic. You just can't have the plastic in contact with direct heat sources like the radiator hoses. The polycarbonates will go to 240 degrees heat resistance and why I suspend /surround the system with the polycarbs.
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