this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time
04-24-2007, 11:17 AM
#11
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RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time
ORIGINAL: RedFire281
I don't mean to be critical but I think this is how Urban Legends start. First, if you're both running these kinds of numbers on a Mustang Dyno then your tuners are better than Kenne Bell's or anybody elses. The Saleen HP/Torque looks about right for a 3.6 pulley, conservative tune on an SAE (Dynojet) Dyno. As for the Kenne Bell 2.6L Big Bore for the 3V GT ..... hmmmmm. I think he's got a 10 lb pulley. I looked at the Kenne Bell dyno sheets on their site ( http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...gt05-06_3v.htm) and here's how KB's own comparisons shake out:
PSI Max RWHP/Torque (SAE)
5 401/357
8445/386
8.5456/402
9462/411
I believe, not really sure, I read somewhere that KB has about 25 degrees of timing so it's pretty aggressive. I've got a 3.6 pulley and making 433 rwhp with my Saleen and a conservative tune, so when I look at the KB numbers compared to mine - I'm happier than spit!
ORIGINAL: Perdi
The interesting thing is between the Saleen and the KB, and I'm kinda going out on a limb here (and could be totally wrong) but I met a fellow this weekend who has a KB2.6 running at 8.5lbs boost and his numbers were something like 471/425... where I'm at 430/426, however I have LT's and he is stock...he has a tad more boost and is putting down more HP but similar TQ... (both on the same Mustang Dyno)... Kinda got me wondering a bit... I can't imagine that the LT's are making up that much torque... and is the KB really putting out that much more HP at 1lb more of boost? However there are some other things to take into consideration as well...different tuners, different A/F ratios etc...
The interesting thing is between the Saleen and the KB, and I'm kinda going out on a limb here (and could be totally wrong) but I met a fellow this weekend who has a KB2.6 running at 8.5lbs boost and his numbers were something like 471/425... where I'm at 430/426, however I have LT's and he is stock...he has a tad more boost and is putting down more HP but similar TQ... (both on the same Mustang Dyno)... Kinda got me wondering a bit... I can't imagine that the LT's are making up that much torque... and is the KB really putting out that much more HP at 1lb more of boost? However there are some other things to take into consideration as well...different tuners, different A/F ratios etc...
PSI Max RWHP/Torque (SAE)
5 401/357
8445/386
8.5456/402
9462/411
I believe, not really sure, I read somewhere that KB has about 25 degrees of timing so it's pretty aggressive. I've got a 3.6 pulley and making 433 rwhp with my Saleen and a conservative tune, so when I look at the KB numbers compared to mine - I'm happier than spit!
04-24-2007, 11:18 AM
#12
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RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time
ORIGINAL: 06SaLeEn
Well I was the one running 9psi with 392 rwhp, not to get into the debate about the two but I did want to explain why I am at that number. First off, I own a Saleen, and Love the Saleen S/C as well as other's. Whoever said the Saleen is a Waste of time is an idiot. The only thing thats a waste with Saleen is there tune. Thats it!
But here are some reasons why we are at 392 rwhp.
1) Humidity. Not the biggest factor but it was 90% that day.
2) I was dynoing on 20" rims. Again not the biggest factor, but a factor non the less
3) The biggest reason was thats what we went for, more or less. We could of and did get close to 60 more Hp out of her. Myself and my tuner bothchose to go ultra conserative. We more than likely would of been fine on the A/F ratio, but there was no reason to blow this engine as we are ni the middle of starting a Big Engine build for my car. Being at Sea Level and the Summer being Humid (80-100%) in FL. There was no reason to risk pushing the internals in these weak motors. Bottom line. I explain this before and some guy said blah blah blah, woulda, coulda and shoulda. and you know he has his points. But this is the reason!
4) Also we shut her down at 5100 rpm, where I see alot of guys going 6000+rpm on the dyno pull
Also to add, I am sure all your guys tuners are great and of course you guys have nothing to say bad about them, but I did have the owner of Sniper tuning doing my car and like and my shop owner said and what I have heard and seen at other shops. It is very easy to make a mustang dyno look like whatever you want. I am not saying your numbers are BS, but you should compare them to other shops. Or the real way to compare them is run them on the track. I am happy with my numbers and know there is more there if I wanted to . Fact is this car got alot more going on in the future. But guys with same set up have bigger numbers with the same or a little more boost so the fact is the power is there with the Hellion System, but you have to be careful, case and point JD and his blown motor.....
Well I was the one running 9psi with 392 rwhp, not to get into the debate about the two but I did want to explain why I am at that number. First off, I own a Saleen, and Love the Saleen S/C as well as other's. Whoever said the Saleen is a Waste of time is an idiot. The only thing thats a waste with Saleen is there tune. Thats it!
But here are some reasons why we are at 392 rwhp.
1) Humidity. Not the biggest factor but it was 90% that day.
2) I was dynoing on 20" rims. Again not the biggest factor, but a factor non the less
3) The biggest reason was thats what we went for, more or less. We could of and did get close to 60 more Hp out of her. Myself and my tuner bothchose to go ultra conserative. We more than likely would of been fine on the A/F ratio, but there was no reason to blow this engine as we are ni the middle of starting a Big Engine build for my car. Being at Sea Level and the Summer being Humid (80-100%) in FL. There was no reason to risk pushing the internals in these weak motors. Bottom line. I explain this before and some guy said blah blah blah, woulda, coulda and shoulda. and you know he has his points. But this is the reason!
4) Also we shut her down at 5100 rpm, where I see alot of guys going 6000+rpm on the dyno pull
Also to add, I am sure all your guys tuners are great and of course you guys have nothing to say bad about them, but I did have the owner of Sniper tuning doing my car and like and my shop owner said and what I have heard and seen at other shops. It is very easy to make a mustang dyno look like whatever you want. I am not saying your numbers are BS, but you should compare them to other shops. Or the real way to compare them is run them on the track. I am happy with my numbers and know there is more there if I wanted to . Fact is this car got alot more going on in the future. But guys with same set up have bigger numbers with the same or a little more boost so the fact is the power is there with the Hellion System, but you have to be careful, case and point JD and his blown motor.....
04-24-2007, 11:54 AM
#13
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 392
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time
ORIGINAL: RedFire281
I don't mean to be critical but I think this is how Urban Legends start. First, if you're both running these kinds of numbers on a Mustang Dyno then your tuners are better than Kenne Bell's or anybody elses. The Saleen HP/Torque looks about right for a 3.6 pulley, conservative tune on an SAE (Dynojet) Dyno. As for the Kenne Bell 2.6L Big Bore for the 3V GT ..... hmmmmm. I think he's got a 10 lb pulley. I looked at the Kenne Bell dyno sheets on their site ( http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...gt05-06_3v.htm) and here's how KB's own comparisons shake out:
PSI Max RWHP/Torque (SAE)
5 401/357
8445/386
8.5456/402
9462/411
I believe, not really sure, I read somewhere that KB has about 25 degrees of timing so it's pretty aggressive. I've got a 3.6 pulley and making 433 rwhp with my Saleen and a conservative tune, so when I look at the KB numbers compared to mine - I'm happier than spit!
I don't mean to be critical but I think this is how Urban Legends start. First, if you're both running these kinds of numbers on a Mustang Dyno then your tuners are better than Kenne Bell's or anybody elses. The Saleen HP/Torque looks about right for a 3.6 pulley, conservative tune on an SAE (Dynojet) Dyno. As for the Kenne Bell 2.6L Big Bore for the 3V GT ..... hmmmmm. I think he's got a 10 lb pulley. I looked at the Kenne Bell dyno sheets on their site ( http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...gt05-06_3v.htm) and here's how KB's own comparisons shake out:
PSI Max RWHP/Torque (SAE)
5 401/357
8445/386
8.5456/402
9462/411
I believe, not really sure, I read somewhere that KB has about 25 degrees of timing so it's pretty aggressive. I've got a 3.6 pulley and making 433 rwhp with my Saleen and a conservative tune, so when I look at the KB numbers compared to mine - I'm happier than spit!
Also, just to avoid any future complications... I heard that that Mustang Dyno is calibrated to read the same (well similar) to a DynoJet. Just trying to keep the descrepencys to a minimum...I also have not come to any kinda of real solid conclusion on the DynoJet vs. Mustang Dyno debate... I've looked it up and researched it as best I can, and really can only come to one theoretical conclusion...that both should be equal in numbers if they are calibrated by a shop who cares about "real world HP" and not just numbers. I would think that they would be within 10 HP of one another anyway...Also, when my car was at 5.5lbs of boost it was at 400RW on a DynoJet...so I would say that the numbers would be pretty close...another 30 RW for 2 lbs more boost seems about right....
Regarding the 9psi turbo set up, I'm sorry, I did read the why's on why it's low...it's very safe... However, it still seems low to me for that kinda boost...Now this is just speculation, but I would think that the 90% humidity really wouldn't skey the numbers that much... With a real solid 9psi I would think to see 440+, so it must be uber consertive... which is cool, cause your right, why risk anything if ya know your going to really build it for big numbers....kinda pointless to push the motor to the edge, when your not interested in that kinda power to begin with... Just looing out for the other folks whom might read those numbers and were thinking about going with that kit, and think that that kit sucks...
04-24-2007, 12:05 PM
#14
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Posts: 1,136
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time
I agree. Because of you just looked at my numbers you would think my kit sucks. But like I said there were reasons behind it. I am pretty sure we could get 440+ out of it. The Tq would of also been 450+. Thats cool. At least you asked about the kit, instead of putting it down.
I am sure there will always be a Mustang Dyno Vs Dyno jet debate, they should be close but problem is allot of people really dont know what there doing when they run them. I have been around shops and dynos for while and usually when done right the Dyno Jet will read higher. All that said, Dyno Numbers mean nothing. Street/Track is where it matters.
If we would of done a run of 6k rpm we would of saw 420 rwhp with the ultra conserative tune.
Again Great Numbers Cheftjpack. The Saleen S/C is my fav S/C on the market and I am not saying that just because I am driving a Saleen
I am sure there will always be a Mustang Dyno Vs Dyno jet debate, they should be close but problem is allot of people really dont know what there doing when they run them. I have been around shops and dynos for while and usually when done right the Dyno Jet will read higher. All that said, Dyno Numbers mean nothing. Street/Track is where it matters.
If we would of done a run of 6k rpm we would of saw 420 rwhp with the ultra conserative tune.
Again Great Numbers Cheftjpack. The Saleen S/C is my fav S/C on the market and I am not saying that just because I am driving a Saleen
04-24-2007, 12:56 PM
#16
Retired Mod
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,658
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time
To chime in on the DJ vs. MD debate..... I did a bunch of reading on it myself. Yes all on the net so some of what I read my not be accurate but there was a degree of consistency in the material. And there is definitely a set up issue with any dyno and how the horsepower numbers will read. My conclusion is that on properly set up dyno there can be a difference of plus 8 - 12% on average on the DJ. Of course how this power is put down in the real world will also depend on so many other factors (tires, suspension etc) that the variances are overwhelming. The bottom line to me is… if you like YOUR set up…..and it works well for your Mazel Tov…enjoy it!! If you don’t like some one else’s STFU! There is always someone out there with a faster car, a more powerful motor, a bigger bank account a larger c*0k….etc… enjoy what make you happy!!!
04-24-2007, 01:30 PM
#18
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Join Date: Jan 2007
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Posts: 196
RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time
What's agood reliable site for the helion system. I've been to the Helion site itself but as with any product you get biased reviews on the. Maybe Reviews or something.
04-24-2007, 01:32 PM
#19
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Join Date: Jul 2006
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RE: this takes all...Saleen S/C is a waste of time
ORIGINAL: 06SaLeEn
I agree. Because of you just looked at my numbers you would think my kit sucks. But like I said there were reasons behind it. I am pretty sure we could get 440+ out of it. The Tq would of also been 450+. Thats cool. At least you asked about the kit, instead of putting it down.
I am sure there will always be a Mustang Dyno Vs Dyno jet debate, they should be close but problem is allot of people really dont know what there doing when they run them. I have been around shops and dynos for while and usually when done right the Dyno Jet will read higher. All that said, Dyno Numbers mean nothing. Street/Track is where it matters.
If we would of done a run of 6k rpm we would of saw 420 rwhp with the ultra conserative tune.
Again Great Numbers Cheftjpack. The Saleen S/C is my fav S/C on the market and I am not saying that just because I am driving a Saleen
I agree. Because of you just looked at my numbers you would think my kit sucks. But like I said there were reasons behind it. I am pretty sure we could get 440+ out of it. The Tq would of also been 450+. Thats cool. At least you asked about the kit, instead of putting it down.
I am sure there will always be a Mustang Dyno Vs Dyno jet debate, they should be close but problem is allot of people really dont know what there doing when they run them. I have been around shops and dynos for while and usually when done right the Dyno Jet will read higher. All that said, Dyno Numbers mean nothing. Street/Track is where it matters.
If we would of done a run of 6k rpm we would of saw 420 rwhp with the ultra conserative tune.
Again Great Numbers Cheftjpack. The Saleen S/C is my fav S/C on the market and I am not saying that just because I am driving a Saleen