CaptRestless

What about the cams in the Parnelli Jones? They are using a different cam with P&P heads and are getting 400hp N/A...

How can aftermarket cams be crap?

Chevy Convert

If I am not mistaken the Parnelli Jones mustang has been punchedout to a 302. Increase in displaccement, new heads, new cams= 400hp.

a_Alsebaei

I have afull exhaust sysin my car with a JLT CAI and SCT Xcal2 tuned by JMS
I sow that some of you guys like Crane due to higher lift is it right
I want the max NA power
I will not go for heads right now !
Does the Tq converter is really very important if my applications is not for drag it's street performance

[8D]

F1Fan

LOL! Because Andrew says so!

Cheers!

F1Fan

Where are you located? I'm in SoCal and the best guy I've met is Adam at ST Motorsports. There are other very good tuners in the L.A. areabut Adam has several very serious racers he isbuilding and tuning for, some are running on the street and some are running both street and strip with automatics that have been built and reprogrammed to work well with their combinations. Some of these guys are supercharged and some are still N/A. Most of the blower guys are staying in the 500-800+RWHP range on the street and most also needed to have more than one converter built before Adam was happy with the way they worked with the engine. But a Blower engine needs a very different converter than a N/A motor does dues to the way power is delivered across the RPM range of the engine. A small multi-valve motor like the 3-valve 4.6l in the S197GT's will need a pretty loose converter for the strip though on the street there are limits due to drivability.Ask around, find a local Mustang car club or local group of car guys and ask who they like and go to for this type of work.

Comp Cams released their cams first so there are more people using them at the moment. I'm sure that Crane's grinds are just as good but we won't know until more folks have installed, tested and documented their results. The RPM range you mention is dependent on the cam timing, more RPM makes more power but a street carcan not spend as much time at upper RPM ranges which is where smaller engines with bigger cams tend to make their best power. With an automatic you need to be careful that your cams, rear gear ratios and torqueconverter stall speedmatches upwell with your street/strip use. There have been a lot of problems with automatics in the S197GT'slargely because the S197GT automatic transmission is new and different and has different electronic controls. Whatever you do you need to find a good local engine builder/tuner who is veryknowledgeable about programming not only the ECU for enginemanagement (engine tuning),but also knowshow to regulate the automatic transmission's various internal valve pressures andclutch/band pressures during shiftingor you can end up with adamaged automatic transmission.

Just be aware that to get the most out of any cam on the S197 GT's small3-valve motor you need to have done ALL of the bolt-on parts on the intake sideand at least headers on the output side of the heads. Otherwisethe power gained from the cams will look low. This is not the fault of the cams but the fact that the 3-valve heads and manifold are alreadycapable offlowing so much air that the intake tract plumbingis more of a problem than the heads and manifold are. If you do not remove these restrictions before installing the new camsthe resulting power increase willnot be as good as the cam profiles might suggest. Anything you can do to increase air volume and velocity throughthe intake and exhaustplumbing will be paid back in spades after the cams are installed.

Cheers!

CaptRestless

F1Fan,

Regarding headers, I assume longtubes would be best, right? The only problem I see for the daily driver crowd is the wholecatless o/r exhaustsystems and emissions. Are the long tubes w/ high flow cats any good? I've read a few times that the stock cats flow very well though... Confusing.

F1Fan

Hi CaptRestless,

The results you see differ widely and as usual the results are heavily dependent on what other bolt-ons like CAI kit, handheld tuneretc. were installed first. Some people installed long tube headers and O/R pipe of some sort as their first modification andsurprisinglygot only so-so results leading people to think that there is not a lot to be had by installing heades and high-flow cats and mufflers. A lot of people installed a CAI kit and a tune first and then installed a set of long tubes and O/R pipe and saw largerpower gains. This is because justlike the heads the exhaust system was pretty well designed for the stock exhaust flow and the exhaust system at the time was not the bottleneck in airflow. Once the intake tract was freed up the exhaust started to be come more important so people saw better power gains. You have to consider the entire systemand the exhaust sideas Ford shipped the S197GT's was stronger than the intake side of the heads.

Now my approach was to consider the intake system as the first priorityand exhaust system second. I'm gettingnearly the samepower (within 5RWHP), out of mycar with JBA shorty headers andMagnaFlow Tru-X Pipe withOBDII compliant high-flow catsas most of the local guys withthe same modifications on the SAME dyno butrunninga good set of longtube headers and O/R H/X pipes in place of the JBA shortys and catted X-pipe.The funny thing is that most of these folks arerunning a "custom" tune fromwell known shopslikeBama, Evo or Brenspeed etc. andthe local tuner but I'm just runningoff of the latest canned Steedaspecific Predator tune which is a year old at this point. I don't think that the difference betweenalong tube headerand O/R H-pipe system and a short tube header and good high-flow catted X-pipe amounts toall that much or my numbers would be much lower but insteadthey arealmost within the margin of errorforthe dyno. Granted I installed litterally all of the bolt-ons there are to install out in my garage but thedyno numbers seem to say that shorty headerswhen combined with the right cats and X-pipe are nearly equal toa long tube system. The other thing that the dyno numbers could be saying is that the intake and heads are maxed out and that we can't see the difference between long tubes and short tubes unless we improve the volume of gasses being pumped out of the engine. For that we need cams as there is nothing else to bolt-on to the motor and porting the heads will not make much difference at this stage of the game as some of the locals have already found out after spending $3,000 on a good P&P job, reinstallation ofthe heads and thencustom dyno tuning on the rollers for 15RWHP! Cams are the way to go at this point for me.

Steeda CAI kit w/90mm MAF housingand upgraded toSteeda's high-flow intake tube
BBK 62mm throttle body
FRPP CMCV delete plates
JBA shorty headers Ti ceramic
MagnaFlow Tru-X Pipe w/OBDII compliant high-flow cats
FRPP M-5230-GTA axle back mufflers
Meziere electric water pump
Steedapart numberedDiablo Predator tuner w/r26 firmware and canned 91 ocane tune

316RWHP SAE correction method

Cheers!

dseid2

F1Fan:

My Stang is running 311 RWHP and 328 RWTQ with stock exhaust according to the dyno at JBA. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think you can change cats here in CA. If this is true then the only C.A.R.B. legal option is shortys, is it not? I did the Steeda CAI with SCT tune, UDP's and the CMCV delete and got the numbers quoted above. Better yet I get80% of peak torque from 1900 rpms through to 6500 rpms, although I shift at 6000 rmps(works real well for a street application). Anyway, my opinion is that aftermarket exahaust does not give you the bestbang for the buck on a stock motor and I agree intake mods should be done first.

As for those guys with 500 RWHP on powdered rods, watch out, it is only a matter of time.

Best Regards

F1Fan

Hi dseid2,

My experience with JBA's dyno is that they have a slightly different brand of dyno and their numbers read a bit higher than the average in ground DynoJet using SAE correction and level 5 smoothing. But that really doesn't matter much if you are using it as a tuning tool.

Well technically you cannot change the cats or their location in the exhaust system. You CAN change the cats out if they are "damaged" or have failed! Sothe only California legal header design must be a short tubedesign by definition which is why JBA shortys are short tubes and CARB exempt. So AFAIKJBA shortys are the only California legal headers on the market that are CARB certified and have an EO number.

Yup, bang for the buck you cannot beat the intake mods first. But eventually you willrun out of intake bolt-ons to install like I did long ago. LOL! I see no good reason to build a high boost blower motor on the stock bottom-end as that's just looking for expensive trouble. I also prefer the very smooth linear power and throttle delivery of a N/A/ motor better than a blower motor for canyon and track running. There is also the issue of longevity and emissionsof an engine that is breathing with a blower, they just don't last as long.

Cheers!

a_Alsebaei

Guys you are talking about something far than my case !!!!!
Which cam I go for Crane or Comp Stage 3 or 4
Also my frined wantto install a cams setin his 07 GT auto but he dont want to change on the Tq converter so is it really required for stage 3and 4
Just tell me I go for comp or crane which is strongest for NA