4000 Stall?
07-11-2007, 05:47 PM
#1
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location:
Posts: 585
4000 Stall?
These questionsare for Auto Trans guys (or girls
) as I'm planning a TC as one of my first mods:
1) Would a 4000 stall TC be good enough as a daily driver? (I drive my car daily for about 11 miles)
2) How different the driveabilityis between the stock TC and a 3000-4000 stall TC? (I need an exact description of that, no 'slippage' or such words that I don't understand PLEASE)
My point is -and since more stall speed equals more performance- What is the maximum stall I should go with for a DD ride and still get the mostbenefits out of this mod?
(If I'm paying$600-$1000 better get it right the first time)
Any help guys will be much appreciated
Thanks
) as I'm planning a TC as one of my first mods: 1) Would a 4000 stall TC be good enough as a daily driver? (I drive my car daily for about 11 miles)
2) How different the driveabilityis between the stock TC and a 3000-4000 stall TC? (I need an exact description of that, no 'slippage' or such words that I don't understand PLEASE)
My point is -and since more stall speed equals more performance- What is the maximum stall I should go with for a DD ride and still get the mostbenefits out of this mod?
(If I'm paying$600-$1000 better get it right the first time)
Any help guys will be much appreciated
Thanks
07-11-2007, 07:53 PM
#3
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: CA
Posts: 1,700
RE: 4000 Stall?
When I was 16 i asked my dad how a torque converter works. That was a long f'ing evening. He grabbed a notepad and pencil, and turnded on the coffee pot lol. I will touch on a couple things and try to put it in the simplest terms possible. his first question was "do you know what a clutch is?"
a torque converter essentially is to an automatic as a clutch is to a manual. a torque converter has two opposing hubs that "lock" (stall) together at a given level of inertia (torque). It is at that time that all power is sent through th rest of the drivetrain to the ground. At speeds below that the converter is "slipping", and only partial power is being applied - just like a clutch that is only partially engaged.
Stall speed is only a "guesstimate". The same converter will stall at different speeds in different engines. The stall speed is directly related to the amount of torque your engine makes - which is why i personally don't like it as a starter mod because as your mods change - so does your stall speed.
4000 - if that is what you achieve, is pretty high for a DD. That generally means that at speeds below that, the car will have bad throttle response and driveability will pretty much suck. Imagine driving a manual car with the clutch pedal depressed halfway - thats a lot like what you will experience. It's good for the track but imo not so much for the street. I would first lay out your future plans and choose a torque converter aroundthe torque figures you plan on at that point.Ideally you want a converter to lockup "stall" at your peak torque rpm.
Hope this helps a little bit. The gf is glaring at me because we are supposed to be leaving for dinner lol.
a torque converter essentially is to an automatic as a clutch is to a manual. a torque converter has two opposing hubs that "lock" (stall) together at a given level of inertia (torque). It is at that time that all power is sent through th rest of the drivetrain to the ground. At speeds below that the converter is "slipping", and only partial power is being applied - just like a clutch that is only partially engaged.
Stall speed is only a "guesstimate". The same converter will stall at different speeds in different engines. The stall speed is directly related to the amount of torque your engine makes - which is why i personally don't like it as a starter mod because as your mods change - so does your stall speed.
4000 - if that is what you achieve, is pretty high for a DD. That generally means that at speeds below that, the car will have bad throttle response and driveability will pretty much suck. Imagine driving a manual car with the clutch pedal depressed halfway - thats a lot like what you will experience. It's good for the track but imo not so much for the street. I would first lay out your future plans and choose a torque converter aroundthe torque figures you plan on at that point.Ideally you want a converter to lockup "stall" at your peak torque rpm.
Hope this helps a little bit. The gf is glaring at me because we are supposed to be leaving for dinner lol.
07-12-2007, 04:02 AM
#4
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Posts: 585
RE: 4000 Stall?
ORIGINAL: RodeoFlyer
When I was 16 i asked my dad how a torque converter works. That was a long f'ing evening. He grabbed a notepad and pencil, and turnded on the coffee pot lol. I will touch on a couple things and try to put it in the simplest terms possible. his first question was "do you know what a clutch is?"
a torque converter essentially is to an automatic as a clutch is to a manual. a torque converter has two opposing hubs that "lock" (stall) together at a given level of inertia (torque). It is at that time that all power is sent through th rest of the drivetrain to the ground. At speeds below that the converter is "slipping", and only partial power is being applied - just like a clutch that is only partially engaged.
Stall speed is only a "guesstimate". The same converter will stall at different speeds in different engines. The stall speed is directly related to the amount of torque your engine makes - which is why i personally don't like it as a starter mod because as your mods change - so does your stall speed.
4000 - if that is what you achieve, is pretty high for a DD. That generally means that at speeds below that, the car will have bad throttle response and driveability will pretty much suck. Imagine driving a manual car with the clutch pedal depressed halfway - thats a lot like what you will experience. It's good for the track but imo not so much for the street. I would first lay out your future plans and choose a torque converter aroundthe torque figures you plan on at that point.Ideally you want a converter to lockup "stall" at your peak torque rpm.
Hope this helps a little bit. The gf is glaring at me because we are supposed to be leaving for dinner lol.
When I was 16 i asked my dad how a torque converter works. That was a long f'ing evening. He grabbed a notepad and pencil, and turnded on the coffee pot lol. I will touch on a couple things and try to put it in the simplest terms possible. his first question was "do you know what a clutch is?"
a torque converter essentially is to an automatic as a clutch is to a manual. a torque converter has two opposing hubs that "lock" (stall) together at a given level of inertia (torque). It is at that time that all power is sent through th rest of the drivetrain to the ground. At speeds below that the converter is "slipping", and only partial power is being applied - just like a clutch that is only partially engaged.
Stall speed is only a "guesstimate". The same converter will stall at different speeds in different engines. The stall speed is directly related to the amount of torque your engine makes - which is why i personally don't like it as a starter mod because as your mods change - so does your stall speed.
4000 - if that is what you achieve, is pretty high for a DD. That generally means that at speeds below that, the car will have bad throttle response and driveability will pretty much suck. Imagine driving a manual car with the clutch pedal depressed halfway - thats a lot like what you will experience. It's good for the track but imo not so much for the street. I would first lay out your future plans and choose a torque converter aroundthe torque figures you plan on at that point.Ideally you want a converter to lockup "stall" at your peak torque rpm.
Hope this helps a little bit. The gf is glaring at me because we are supposed to be leaving for dinner lol.
As for future modes, I'm going turbo, at 9psi torque should typically be around 450 at the wheels, don't know at which rpm though.
07-12-2007, 07:25 AM
#5
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: LA
Posts: 1,201
RE: 4000 Stall?
I have TC and stall set at 4000 rpm. My car is still a DD but my commutes are very very short. To decide upon the correct stall, my tuner spoke to the transmission builder and they agreed upon 4000 based on driving/track goals/hp/torque etc. It's streetdriveable but there is plenty of slippage or a feeling that the clutch is not fully engaging (although it's a clutchless manual). It's most noticeable in 1st gear. Not sure I would want such a high stall if I had to commute across Houston for example in heavy traffic. Car has not been to the track since tranny/TC install, so cannot comment on difference there. On the street in 3rd gear at only 20 mph, a slight (maybe 25% gas)push on the accelerator launches the car forward hard...really hard. Car has been having fuel/MAF problems (almost sorted) and more mods, so really have not pushed it at all in weeks. Think it may be ready for a dynotune in a week or two and then finally back to the track??? In the meantime I just putt-putt around town and it's fine.
07-12-2007, 11:42 AM
#6
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,726
RE: 4000 Stall?
In most cases forced induction cars use a reasonably low stall speed. 4000 is higher than most people would run with turbo or blower. I have 3300 RPM stall and that is plenty for me with my blower.
Turbos and twin-screws are so torquey at low-end a 4000 stall may be too much in your case.
Forensicsteve is running a 4r70W (4-speed) tranny which uses different converter than those used the 5R55S.
I recommend that you buy a high quality torque converter not something from TCI that is just a warmed over stock converter. (Streetfighter???= modded OEM )
PI makes nice custom locking converters.
I have the Level 10 PTS billett converter. It eliminates the flex plate attached to the stock converter also and is alocking converter.
Turbos and twin-screws are so torquey at low-end a 4000 stall may be too much in your case.
Forensicsteve is running a 4r70W (4-speed) tranny which uses different converter than those used the 5R55S.
I recommend that you buy a high quality torque converter not something from TCI that is just a warmed over stock converter. (Streetfighter???= modded OEM )
PI makes nice custom locking converters.
I have the Level 10 PTS billett converter. It eliminates the flex plate attached to the stock converter also and is alocking converter.
07-12-2007, 02:53 PM
#10
I ♥ Acer
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,527
RE: 4000 Stall?
Some really good advice in this thread[sm=hail.gif]
Listen to the consensus is my advice. 4000 is way too high on a DD IMO. If you are going with a turbo, then depnding on the size and what trim exhaust housing, you just may need a high stall for the track to get that thing to spool in less than forever but in these cases it is for track monsters and not DD.
For example my friend David Beyer runs a 5000 stall with his turbo set-up cause he runs a big turbo and runs 9.50's but his is definitely NOT a street car.
Since you plan on going with a turbo in the future, I would plan ahead now and like it was pointed out, you don't want a big stall on a turbo or TS on the street but also want the 'happy medium' if you plan on going to the track as well.
I would consider a stall in the 3000-3500 range and give whoever you are getting the converter all the specs on what you plan on having on the car mod wise and let them tell you what would be best for you cause every set-up is unique and the stall is CRUCIAL for a set-up to get the most out of it IMO.
Listen to the consensus is my advice. 4000 is way too high on a DD IMO. If you are going with a turbo, then depnding on the size and what trim exhaust housing, you just may need a high stall for the track to get that thing to spool in less than forever but in these cases it is for track monsters and not DD.
For example my friend David Beyer runs a 5000 stall with his turbo set-up cause he runs a big turbo and runs 9.50's but his is definitely NOT a street car.
Since you plan on going with a turbo in the future, I would plan ahead now and like it was pointed out, you don't want a big stall on a turbo or TS on the street but also want the 'happy medium' if you plan on going to the track as well.
I would consider a stall in the 3000-3500 range and give whoever you are getting the converter all the specs on what you plan on having on the car mod wise and let them tell you what would be best for you cause every set-up is unique and the stall is CRUCIAL for a set-up to get the most out of it IMO.
