HOT AIR DAMAGE TO SUPERCHARGER & ENGINE
11-08-2007, 01:44 PM
#1
1st Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Posts: 59
HOT AIR DAMAGE TO SUPERCHARGER & ENGINE
opinions on this???
seems to me from a alot of pix i've seen on thisforum...manys/ckitsbeing used are doing exactly what is warned against(i.e...sucking inhot underhood air instead of pull in cool air from the fenderwell).
web link http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/ge...AirWARNING.pdf
Overheating your engine or supercharger will damage both. One has pistons - the other uses rotors. Both are aluminum and expand with heat. An '03 Cobra test was recently run on our dyno comparing a fenderwell filter to an open filter with the hood OPEN and a huge fan blowing on it to simulate 90 mph. The temperature difference was a whopping 45° hotter. Oops! An engines coolant temperature is approximately 160°-200°. That is the temperature deemed "safe" by engineers for over 100 years. Obviously, higher temperatures should be avoided because excess coolant temperature expands the pistons, thereby reducing the piston to bore clearance to a critical "0". The piston then scores and/or seizes in the cylinders. Excessive heat will also cause the rotors to expand and score the supercharger case and/or seize the rotors. Both are typically ruined because of the scoring and metal transfer. Never a pretty sight. Needless to say, you wouldn't knowingly install some lame product or concept that increases your engine water temperature 130° to a ridiculously hot 290° to 330° and cause your pistons to seize up and ruin your engine, to say nothing of the power loss from this hot air (1% power loss for every 10°). Also, there's the increased potential for detonation and more engine damage. Oops!
Would you buy some kit that removes your engine fan? How about a "concept" that advises you to drain 50% of the engine coolant - or spark plugs 6 heat ranges too hot? Of course you wouldn't. One would have to be totally and technically incompetent, ignorant or brain dead to offer products or suggestions that destroy your engine - right? Wrong, they do - and these people create big problems for the vehicle manufacturer and Kenne Bell. You would have no legitimate or ethical case for getting your engine warrantied by the factory. And you can forget about those companies who sold or recommended those products paying the tab. Your supercharged engine doesn't like it. So why destroy your Kenne Bell supercharger - and possibly your engine - with 130° hotter air from one of these cheap HOTAIR UNDERHOOD OPEN FILTERS? "Hot Air" kits are akin to "interheaters" (the opposite of ntercoolers).
Don't do it! Use a SEALED filter set up that pulls cool air from the fenderwell, cowl or hood. No underhood air allowed. No half *** baffles either. One more time.Avoid all who sell and promote these things for use with Kenne Bell supercharger kits. They obviously don't know, don't care - or both. These products can destroy your supercharger and/or engine with "the hots." .
We recently ran a filter temperature comparison on Earl's 700HP 9 second Cobra. The hood was open with a high speed fan blowing cool air into the front of the car. The dyno room temperature remained the same for both the fenderwell located cool air filter and the hot underhood filter installed on the end of the mass air meter ("hot air" filter) located behind the headlight. However, even with the hood OPEN and the fan blowing air over the top of the filter, temperature was 45° hotter with the filter sucking hoot underhood air off the end of the mass air meter. That's the equivalent of approximately 4 psi of boost and a 4%HPloss. Read on. Did you really believe that a cylindrical filter would magically not suck that bottom hot air from the headers, radiator, etc. and NOTmix it with the "top cool air" at the filter top? Of course, the filter will average the "hot" and "cool" air, but it won't be as cool as the fenderwell air. That is why everyOEMmanufacturer on the planet avoids hot exposed underhood filter designs. Now, if 10° is equivalent to a 1%drop inHP(that's how you calibrate dynos), doesn't the 45° higher air tempREDUCEHPby 4.5%? Oops! Where does your dyno tuner measure air temp? We've found that the best place to accurately increase air temp is at the entrance of the supercharger. "One of the real dangers in running a test is you are bound to get data." So if you test on a dyno, use the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) calibration for the particular weather conditions to insure accuracy, but you must test the RIGHTWAY and use the correct temperature that your engine sees and not the temperature at some random location in the dyno room. The engine is not using the air next to the dyno computer, is it?
seems to me from a alot of pix i've seen on thisforum...manys/ckitsbeing used are doing exactly what is warned against(i.e...sucking inhot underhood air instead of pull in cool air from the fenderwell).
web link http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/ge...AirWARNING.pdf
Overheating your engine or supercharger will damage both. One has pistons - the other uses rotors. Both are aluminum and expand with heat. An '03 Cobra test was recently run on our dyno comparing a fenderwell filter to an open filter with the hood OPEN and a huge fan blowing on it to simulate 90 mph. The temperature difference was a whopping 45° hotter. Oops! An engines coolant temperature is approximately 160°-200°. That is the temperature deemed "safe" by engineers for over 100 years. Obviously, higher temperatures should be avoided because excess coolant temperature expands the pistons, thereby reducing the piston to bore clearance to a critical "0". The piston then scores and/or seizes in the cylinders. Excessive heat will also cause the rotors to expand and score the supercharger case and/or seize the rotors. Both are typically ruined because of the scoring and metal transfer. Never a pretty sight. Needless to say, you wouldn't knowingly install some lame product or concept that increases your engine water temperature 130° to a ridiculously hot 290° to 330° and cause your pistons to seize up and ruin your engine, to say nothing of the power loss from this hot air (1% power loss for every 10°). Also, there's the increased potential for detonation and more engine damage. Oops!
Would you buy some kit that removes your engine fan? How about a "concept" that advises you to drain 50% of the engine coolant - or spark plugs 6 heat ranges too hot? Of course you wouldn't. One would have to be totally and technically incompetent, ignorant or brain dead to offer products or suggestions that destroy your engine - right? Wrong, they do - and these people create big problems for the vehicle manufacturer and Kenne Bell. You would have no legitimate or ethical case for getting your engine warrantied by the factory. And you can forget about those companies who sold or recommended those products paying the tab. Your supercharged engine doesn't like it. So why destroy your Kenne Bell supercharger - and possibly your engine - with 130° hotter air from one of these cheap HOTAIR UNDERHOOD OPEN FILTERS? "Hot Air" kits are akin to "interheaters" (the opposite of ntercoolers).
Don't do it! Use a SEALED filter set up that pulls cool air from the fenderwell, cowl or hood. No underhood air allowed. No half *** baffles either. One more time.Avoid all who sell and promote these things for use with Kenne Bell supercharger kits. They obviously don't know, don't care - or both. These products can destroy your supercharger and/or engine with "the hots." .
We recently ran a filter temperature comparison on Earl's 700HP 9 second Cobra. The hood was open with a high speed fan blowing cool air into the front of the car. The dyno room temperature remained the same for both the fenderwell located cool air filter and the hot underhood filter installed on the end of the mass air meter ("hot air" filter) located behind the headlight. However, even with the hood OPEN and the fan blowing air over the top of the filter, temperature was 45° hotter with the filter sucking hoot underhood air off the end of the mass air meter. That's the equivalent of approximately 4 psi of boost and a 4%HPloss. Read on. Did you really believe that a cylindrical filter would magically not suck that bottom hot air from the headers, radiator, etc. and NOTmix it with the "top cool air" at the filter top? Of course, the filter will average the "hot" and "cool" air, but it won't be as cool as the fenderwell air. That is why everyOEMmanufacturer on the planet avoids hot exposed underhood filter designs. Now, if 10° is equivalent to a 1%drop inHP(that's how you calibrate dynos), doesn't the 45° higher air tempREDUCEHPby 4.5%? Oops! Where does your dyno tuner measure air temp? We've found that the best place to accurately increase air temp is at the entrance of the supercharger. "One of the real dangers in running a test is you are bound to get data." So if you test on a dyno, use the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) calibration for the particular weather conditions to insure accuracy, but you must test the RIGHTWAY and use the correct temperature that your engine sees and not the temperature at some random location in the dyno room. The engine is not using the air next to the dyno computer, is it?
11-08-2007, 02:04 PM
#4
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,276
RE: HOT AIR DAMAGE TO SUPERCHARGER & ENGINE
Every car from the factory has the filter under the hood. And having it in the fender makes it more prones to getting soaked by puddles in the rain. Plus 90% of CAI are located in the engine bay as are all of the Whipple and Saleen blowers and I assume many others do as well and I dont hear about catastrophic failures all the time.
While I dont disagree with the mechanics of what they are saying I dont think this is a problem for a normal or supercharged car with low boost (ie 10psi or less).
It is certainly interesting but I think they are blowing it a little out of proporation. On a 9 second cobra running 25+ psi, ok sure, Joe Schmoe with his twin screw at 10psi, I dont think so.
While I dont disagree with the mechanics of what they are saying I dont think this is a problem for a normal or supercharged car with low boost (ie 10psi or less).
It is certainly interesting but I think they are blowing it a little out of proporation. On a 9 second cobra running 25+ psi, ok sure, Joe Schmoe with his twin screw at 10psi, I dont think so.
11-08-2007, 02:49 PM
#5
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 6,414
RE: HOT AIR DAMAGE TO SUPERCHARGER & ENGINE
ORIGINAL: MustangGT0405
It is certainly interesting but I think they are blowing it a little out of proporation. On a 9 second cobra running 25+ psi, ok sure, Joe Schmoe with his twin screw at 10psi, I dont think so.
It is certainly interesting but I think they are blowing it a little out of proporation. On a 9 second cobra running 25+ psi, ok sure, Joe Schmoe with his twin screw at 10psi, I dont think so.
11-08-2007, 04:30 PM
#6
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 960
RE: HOT AIR DAMAGE TO SUPERCHARGER & ENGINE
Dont forget, the ECU will use that reading, along with the knock sensor to retard timing. Now everything is well. Once you are moving, the underhood temp will drop. Heat soak is the only problem with s/c induction (we are talking temperatures here). Intercooling helps that out a bit as well.
11-08-2007, 05:13 PM
#8
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gainesville, FL
Posts: 11,278
RE: HOT AIR DAMAGE TO SUPERCHARGER & ENGINE
Sounds like KB is trying to sell SC's. I've monitored my ambient air temps and intake air temps and the difference is marginal, 5 degrees when going 60mph. I'm sure having the filter in the fender well has a temp advantage at idle, but it's probably not much since it still has to travel through that long hot tube.
Does anyone know where the pcm sensor is at for ambient air temp?
Does anyone know where the pcm sensor is at for ambient air temp?
