Paging all Kenny Belled & Whippled Stangs
12-06-2007, 02:43 PM
#11
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 264
RE: Paging all Kenny Belled & Whippled Stangs
ORIGINAL: 06Saleen3V
Ok I was giving them credit until they stated that headers only add 4-5 hp...yes my ***!
12-06-2007, 02:52 PM
#12
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,699
RE: Paging all Kenny Belled & Whippled Stangs
I believe it. Most of the claims you hear from companies neglect to mention that their numbers were achived with their parts and some 'others' to get the final dyno number...
Anyone who knows Jim Bell will tell you he is a testing fanatic and lives and breathes comparison tests, case studios, and application references.
The guy lives numbers and doesn't have to spout BS.
I really like the KB and it will make more power than the whipple in the bigger boost levels and that's a fact. Having said that, it's design runs hotter than the whipple and that's also a fact.
If I was looking to keep my stock motor and have the best all around street set-up - I would go with the whipple. If I had plans for some bigger power and a rebuild in the future, I would go KB...simple.
Also, don't listen to the nonsense about BAP not working. It is a FACT there has not been a single BAP failure that I have heard of and the BAP's have been around and used for years and years before the GT500 pumps. They get the job done and most people who have the GT500 pumps just don't need them. They are superior though because of the extra DM IMO and nice bonus with the whipple kit but they aren't 'needed' at all until you start seeing 550+ rwhp. Even then they have their limits. At 650 rwhp, I had to add the dual 40 amp BAP to the GT500 set-up. Everyone pushing over 650 rwhp with the GT500 pumps is using a dual BAP on top so believe me, the BAP is not 'bad' and is in fact a tried and proven set-up that is used by many.
06Saleen3V - I'm sure you believe cams give you big gains to on FI set-ups...[8D] I personally watched the tests at KB when they tried just about every cam out there on the same motor/car and didn't make squat gains.
Anyone who knows Jim Bell will tell you he is a testing fanatic and lives and breathes comparison tests, case studios, and application references.
The guy lives numbers and doesn't have to spout BS.
I really like the KB and it will make more power than the whipple in the bigger boost levels and that's a fact. Having said that, it's design runs hotter than the whipple and that's also a fact.
If I was looking to keep my stock motor and have the best all around street set-up - I would go with the whipple. If I had plans for some bigger power and a rebuild in the future, I would go KB...simple.
Also, don't listen to the nonsense about BAP not working. It is a FACT there has not been a single BAP failure that I have heard of and the BAP's have been around and used for years and years before the GT500 pumps. They get the job done and most people who have the GT500 pumps just don't need them. They are superior though because of the extra DM IMO and nice bonus with the whipple kit but they aren't 'needed' at all until you start seeing 550+ rwhp. Even then they have their limits. At 650 rwhp, I had to add the dual 40 amp BAP to the GT500 set-up. Everyone pushing over 650 rwhp with the GT500 pumps is using a dual BAP on top so believe me, the BAP is not 'bad' and is in fact a tried and proven set-up that is used by many.
06Saleen3V - I'm sure you believe cams give you big gains to on FI set-ups...[8D] I personally watched the tests at KB when they tried just about every cam out there on the same motor/car and didn't make squat gains.
12-06-2007, 04:06 PM
#14
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 6,414
RE: Paging all Kenny Belled & Whippled Stangs
ORIGINAL: modaddict
06Saleen3V - I'm sure you believe cams give you big gains to on FI set-ups...[8D] I personally watched the tests at KB when they tried just about every cam out there on the same motor/car and didn't make squat gains.
06Saleen3V - I'm sure you believe cams give you big gains to on FI set-ups...[8D] I personally watched the tests at KB when they tried just about every cam out there on the same motor/car and didn't make squat gains.
12-06-2007, 05:21 PM
#15
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: New Orleans,, Louisiana
Posts: 416
RE: Paging all Kenny Belled & Whippled Stangs
ORIGINAL: modaddict
I believe it. Most of the claims you hear from companies neglect to mention that their numbers were achived with their parts and some 'others' to get the final dyno number...
Anyone who knows Jim Bell will tell you he is a testing fanatic and lives and breathes comparison tests, case studios, and application references.
The guy lives numbers and doesn't have to spout BS.
I really like the KB and it will make more power than the whipple in the bigger boost levels and that's a fact. Having said that, it's design runs hotter than the whipple and that's also a fact.
If I was looking to keep my stock motor and have the best all around street set-up - I would go with the whipple. If I had plans for some bigger power and a rebuild in the future, I would go KB...simple.
Also, don't listen to the nonsense about BAP not working. It is a FACT there has not been a single BAP failure that I have heard of and the BAP's have been around and used for years and years before the GT500 pumps. They get the job done and most people who have the GT500 pumps just don't need them. They are superior though because of the extra DM IMO and nice bonus with the whipple kit but they aren't 'needed' at all until you start seeing 550+ rwhp. Even then they have their limits. At 650 rwhp, I had to add the dual 40 amp BAP to the GT500 set-up. Everyone pushing over 650 rwhp with the GT500 pumps is using a dual BAP on top so believe me, the BAP is not 'bad' and is in fact a tried and proven set-up that is used by many.
06Saleen3V - I'm sure you believe cams give you big gains to on FI set-ups...[8D] I personally watched the tests at KB when they tried just about every cam out there on the same motor/car and didn't make squat gains.
I believe it. Most of the claims you hear from companies neglect to mention that their numbers were achived with their parts and some 'others' to get the final dyno number...
Anyone who knows Jim Bell will tell you he is a testing fanatic and lives and breathes comparison tests, case studios, and application references.
The guy lives numbers and doesn't have to spout BS.
I really like the KB and it will make more power than the whipple in the bigger boost levels and that's a fact. Having said that, it's design runs hotter than the whipple and that's also a fact.
If I was looking to keep my stock motor and have the best all around street set-up - I would go with the whipple. If I had plans for some bigger power and a rebuild in the future, I would go KB...simple.
Also, don't listen to the nonsense about BAP not working. It is a FACT there has not been a single BAP failure that I have heard of and the BAP's have been around and used for years and years before the GT500 pumps. They get the job done and most people who have the GT500 pumps just don't need them. They are superior though because of the extra DM IMO and nice bonus with the whipple kit but they aren't 'needed' at all until you start seeing 550+ rwhp. Even then they have their limits. At 650 rwhp, I had to add the dual 40 amp BAP to the GT500 set-up. Everyone pushing over 650 rwhp with the GT500 pumps is using a dual BAP on top so believe me, the BAP is not 'bad' and is in fact a tried and proven set-up that is used by many.
06Saleen3V - I'm sure you believe cams give you big gains to on FI set-ups...[8D] I personally watched the tests at KB when they tried just about every cam out there on the same motor/car and didn't make squat gains.
12-07-2007, 02:50 AM
#16
Multi-Tasking Moderator!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Detroit Rock City!
Posts: 15,618
RE: Paging all Kenny Belled & Whippled Stangs
Actually I didn't because I had it done "custom" with my installer! Everything that is not included was upgraded (injectors) with the difference in what he did not order from Whipple. As a distributor for Whipple he gets a sheet to check off what he wants from the H.O. kit. You live and learn and I will see if he can take care of the cost for me if it is not 100% soon. It still starts but I know it is the tune for the sputtering on startup the first time of the day after sitting in the garage overnight (or 3 wks) etc. Then it is fine after warm up (10 mins). Thanks Moose for everything and it was a bone chilling 7 degrees for me in the AM yesterday (not including the wind chill!!!!!!!!!!!
ORIGINAL: moosestang
So you never even got the ford racing flash tool? I would have gotten it just because it's included in the price
. You know whipple tested it in every kind of wether conditions so surely they tested it in the freezing cold. It was a blistering cold 39 degrees this morning, buuurrrrrrrrrr!
ORIGINAL: mygt500
Moose didn't even suggest but he prompted me (in another thread) if I had a custom tune or the whipple tune sent with the kit. I replied thatI have a custom tune butit makes sense to try their tune first and then dyno tune it if necessary (or if you are going with bigger boost). Basically to check Whipples' tune for peace of mind. I bet it would fix many problems with cold start ups here in the mid-west and northern states.
Moose didn't even suggest but he prompted me (in another thread) if I had a custom tune or the whipple tune sent with the kit. I replied thatI have a custom tune butit makes sense to try their tune first and then dyno tune it if necessary (or if you are going with bigger boost). Basically to check Whipples' tune for peace of mind. I bet it would fix many problems with cold start ups here in the mid-west and northern states.
. You know whipple tested it in every kind of wether conditions so surely they tested it in the freezing cold. It was a blistering cold 39 degrees this morning, buuurrrrrrrrrr!
12-07-2007, 02:14 PM
#17
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,699
RE: Paging all Kenny Belled & Whippled Stangs
ORIGINAL: 06Saleen3V
Did I ever state this...people like you who can add very good information then let their ego get in the way and put others down, its sad. You are a good asset to these forums but that doesnt mean you have the right to be an arrogant dick about it. I, as well as many others know a good amount about these cars but I KNOW I have so much more to learn. All the guys that have the same mods as me plus LT headers usually have 10-20rwhp more on a dyno. I figure that is a result of the one thing I dont have. And no it's not just one guy with these numbers that leads me to make this claim because I am aware that all cars dyno different as there are sooooo many variables out there. I say you lighten up but continue with the information as I know you know your stuff and its beneficial so I respect you but don't let your ego get the best of you. Cheers
ORIGINAL: modaddict
06Saleen3V - I'm sure you believe cams give you big gains to on FI set-ups...[8D] I personally watched the tests at KB when they tried just about every cam out there on the same motor/car and didn't make squat gains.
06Saleen3V - I'm sure you believe cams give you big gains to on FI set-ups...[8D] I personally watched the tests at KB when they tried just about every cam out there on the same motor/car and didn't make squat gains.
In the spirit of good faith, let me address your post...
You make a valid point but you have to consider some other facts. #1 - almost no one has done a dyno test on a bone stock car and just put the L/T's on and done another dyno. Usually, there are other accompanying mods and at the very least, the tune is tweaked (granted because the new headers allow it) and the L/T's can certainly compliment other mods. For example, a blower car is going to see more gains from the L/T's than an N/A car and a guy who goes in and adjusts the tune to take advantage of the headers with an upgraded fuel system is going to see more gains than a guy who just installs the headers and goes.
A lot of guys just look at the one big dyno number (the peak HP) and think it's the definition of how fast they are. The truth is the peak really isn't all that important in your ET. Assuming you can hook the power, what matters is how quickly you make that power and transfer it to the wheels. This is why some guys show up to the track with 500 rwhp and scratch their heads when the can't beat a guy with 420 rwhp with the same car...
Now I know this has nothing to do with your post, but I'm just illustrating that there is usually other consideration and 'facts' when you consider gains from mods. For me, in all honesty, I don't give 2 cents what my dyno number is. What I look for is how quickly my rpm's rise...[8D]
12-07-2007, 02:23 PM
#19
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 6,414
RE: Paging all Kenny Belled & Whippled Stangs
ORIGINAL: modaddict
If I seem like I snapped at you it was only because I took your post as saying Jim Bell is FOS and I took offense to that. If that was not your intent, then I apologize...[sm=icon_cheers.gif] (BTW: It was after this I made my comment to you in your 'converter' post)
In the spirit of good faith, let me address your post...
You make a valid point but you have to consider some other facts. #1 - almost no one has done a dyno test on a bone stock car and just put the L/T's on and done another dyno. Usually, there are other accompanying mods and at the very least, the tune is tweaked (granted because the new headers allow it) and the L/T's can certainly compliment other mods. For example, a blower car is going to see more gains from the L/T's than an N/A car and a guy who goes in and adjusts the tune to take advantage of the headers with an upgraded fuel system is going to see more gains than a guy who just installs the headers and goes.
A lot of guys just look at the one big dyno number (the peak HP) and think it's the definition of how fast they are. The truth is the peak really isn't all that important in your ET. Assuming you can hook the power, what matters is how quickly you make that power and transfer it to the wheels. This is why some guys show up to the track with 500 rwhp and scratch their heads when the can't beat a guy with 420 rwhp with the same car...
Now I know this has nothing to do with your post, but I'm just illustrating that there is usually other consideration and 'facts' when you consider gains from mods. For me, in all honesty, I don't give 2 cents what my dyno number is. What I look for is how quickly my rpm's rise...[8D]
ORIGINAL: 06Saleen3V
Did I ever state this...people like you who can add very good information then let their ego get in the way and put others down, its sad. You are a good asset to these forums but that doesnt mean you have the right to be an arrogant dick about it. I, as well as many others know a good amount about these cars but I KNOW I have so much more to learn. All the guys that have the same mods as me plus LT headers usually have 10-20rwhp more on a dyno. I figure that is a result of the one thing I dont have. And no it's not just one guy with these numbers that leads me to make this claim because I am aware that all cars dyno different as there are sooooo many variables out there. I say you lighten up but continue with the information as I know you know your stuff and its beneficial so I respect you butdon't let your ego get the best of you. Cheers
ORIGINAL: modaddict
06Saleen3V - I'm sure you believe cams give you big gains to on FI set-ups...[8D] I personally watched the tests at KB when they tried just about every cam out there on the same motor/car and didn't make squat gains.
06Saleen3V - I'm sure you believe cams give you big gains to on FI set-ups...[8D] I personally watched the tests at KB when they tried just about every cam out there on the same motor/car and didn't make squat gains.
In the spirit of good faith, let me address your post...
You make a valid point but you have to consider some other facts. #1 - almost no one has done a dyno test on a bone stock car and just put the L/T's on and done another dyno. Usually, there are other accompanying mods and at the very least, the tune is tweaked (granted because the new headers allow it) and the L/T's can certainly compliment other mods. For example, a blower car is going to see more gains from the L/T's than an N/A car and a guy who goes in and adjusts the tune to take advantage of the headers with an upgraded fuel system is going to see more gains than a guy who just installs the headers and goes.
A lot of guys just look at the one big dyno number (the peak HP) and think it's the definition of how fast they are. The truth is the peak really isn't all that important in your ET. Assuming you can hook the power, what matters is how quickly you make that power and transfer it to the wheels. This is why some guys show up to the track with 500 rwhp and scratch their heads when the can't beat a guy with 420 rwhp with the same car...
Now I know this has nothing to do with your post, but I'm just illustrating that there is usually other consideration and 'facts' when you consider gains from mods. For me, in all honesty, I don't give 2 cents what my dyno number is. What I look for is how quickly my rpm's rise...[8D]