the benefits of "ethanol"
01-25-2008, 03:31 PM
#11
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 368
RE: the benefits of "ethanol"
One of the reasons flex-fuel vehicles get worse gas mileage when running on E-85 is due to compression. Cars that only run on E-85 get better gas mileage than cars than flex fuel cars due to their high compression engines. In short, you will not create as much power using 10% ethanol/90% gas as you will using 100% gas (as I understand it). Your mileage will also be slightly lower.
Dustin
Dustin
01-25-2008, 04:36 PM
#12
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: the benefits of "ethanol"
ORIGINAL: d_ames117
In short, you will not create as much power using 10% ethanol/90% gas as you will using 100% gas (as I understand it).
Dustin
In short, you will not create as much power using 10% ethanol/90% gas as you will using 100% gas (as I understand it).
Dustin
Ifmixing ethanol with gasoline reducesan engine'spower output, like you're saying,then why did the Tahoe in the CR test runa faster 0-60 time with E85(85% ethanol/15% gasoline)than it did with100% gasoline?
01-25-2008, 04:46 PM
#13
Mish-ogynist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Helena, MT
Posts: 3,780
RE: the benefits of "ethanol"
here we have 85.5 88(10% ethanol) and 91 octane gas.. i have no real choice.. i use 88.. and my gas mileage is a bit lower than it should be i believe.. however, engine is running fine i think.. I'm sure i could use 91 octane in my engine even though its designed for 87 w/o any trouble (infact, my mechanic recommended that I do, he says the 85.5 and 88 is junk)..
01-26-2008, 03:53 PM
#14
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 167
RE: the benefits of "ethanol"
ORIGINAL: d_ames117
One of the reasons flex-fuel vehicles get worse gas mileage when running on E-85 is due to compression. Cars that only run on E-85 get better gas mileage than cars than flex fuel cars due to their high compression engines. In short, you will not create as much power using 10% ethanol/90% gas as you will using 100% gas (as I understand it). Your mileage will also be slightly lower.
Dustin
One of the reasons flex-fuel vehicles get worse gas mileage when running on E-85 is due to compression. Cars that only run on E-85 get better gas mileage than cars than flex fuel cars due to their high compression engines. In short, you will not create as much power using 10% ethanol/90% gas as you will using 100% gas (as I understand it). Your mileage will also be slightly lower.
Dustin
01-27-2008, 08:33 AM
#15
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 345
Simplified fuel properties
Ethanol burns cooler and has ahigher ignition point, which is great if you want to build a high compression engine or something with a lot of boost. But it also hasa lower caloric content (less energy by mass), meaning it requires more of it to create the same amount of power, in the same amount of time with an engine of similar efficiency.
Lower octane gasoline has a lower ignition temp, and burns hotter than higher octane while also having a slightly lower potential amount of energy release. Meaning you can getalmost the same out of it, but its harder on the engine, you wont be able to safely advance timing as much as with premium fuels, and you risk the safety of your engine.
Ethanol is also hard on seals and fuel pump components, any engine can burn E-85, but it chews up fuel lines and injectors, thats why EEV vehicles have teflon coated fuel components... to survive it. Ethanol also burns considerably cleaner than regular gasoline, less hydrocarbon and nox emmision.
All in all, keep the ethenol in the greenhouse vehicles, and let your mustang run happily along on the 91 tune and fuel. Chances are if your seeing better fuel economy and its running smoother, then your engine is running more efficiently on the dino oil. If you cant tell the seat of the pants difference, then your just running 94 for dick measurement and to be able to say "i run sunoco 94". These engines, and stock tunes were designed to run plain ol' 87 fuel, and its completely fine for them. We areall trying to get the most out ofour mustangs,but the difference between a 91 and 94 tune is probably (no i havent done any calculations)so miniscule that it doesnt make up for the loss of caloric energy that the ethanol blend puts into the mix.If you go to FI, or a high compression build and want to really be able to max a safe tune start using ethanol blends (also known as Oxygenated fuels), but a mustang with a few bolt ons will thank you for the petrolium, and you can use the money saved at the pump on a new Bolt-on to make up the negligable if any power difference.
Lower octane gasoline has a lower ignition temp, and burns hotter than higher octane while also having a slightly lower potential amount of energy release. Meaning you can getalmost the same out of it, but its harder on the engine, you wont be able to safely advance timing as much as with premium fuels, and you risk the safety of your engine.
Ethanol is also hard on seals and fuel pump components, any engine can burn E-85, but it chews up fuel lines and injectors, thats why EEV vehicles have teflon coated fuel components... to survive it. Ethanol also burns considerably cleaner than regular gasoline, less hydrocarbon and nox emmision.
All in all, keep the ethenol in the greenhouse vehicles, and let your mustang run happily along on the 91 tune and fuel. Chances are if your seeing better fuel economy and its running smoother, then your engine is running more efficiently on the dino oil. If you cant tell the seat of the pants difference, then your just running 94 for dick measurement and to be able to say "i run sunoco 94". These engines, and stock tunes were designed to run plain ol' 87 fuel, and its completely fine for them. We areall trying to get the most out ofour mustangs,but the difference between a 91 and 94 tune is probably (no i havent done any calculations)so miniscule that it doesnt make up for the loss of caloric energy that the ethanol blend puts into the mix.If you go to FI, or a high compression build and want to really be able to max a safe tune start using ethanol blends (also known as Oxygenated fuels), but a mustang with a few bolt ons will thank you for the petrolium, and you can use the money saved at the pump on a new Bolt-on to make up the negligable if any power difference.
01-27-2008, 04:31 PM
#17
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: East Moline, IL
Posts: 1,852
RE: Simplified fuel properties
If tuned right, E85 can produce some sick numbers. My dyno shop picked up around 80HP on their shop car by switching to E85 and tuning it appropriately. But that's on a built turbo motor. I'm sure the gas mileage is horrible, though. But it's not a car you would worry about gas mileage with. I would never do E85 in a daily driver.
You won't really notice any difference in performance, nor gas mileage with 10% ethanol. Pretty much all of the gas here in the Midwest is 10% ethanol. I still get 19-20MPG in the city and up to 30MPG highway (those are both assuming I keep my foot out of it).
[align=left] [/align]
You won't really notice any difference in performance, nor gas mileage with 10% ethanol. Pretty much all of the gas here in the Midwest is 10% ethanol. I still get 19-20MPG in the city and up to 30MPG highway (those are both assuming I keep my foot out of it).
[align=left] [/align]
01-28-2008, 04:06 PM
#19
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 368
RE: the benefits of "ethanol"
ORIGINAL: ski
Hmmm.....
Ifmixing ethanol with gasoline reducesan engine'spower output, like you're saying,then why did the Tahoe in the CR test runa faster 0-60 time with E85(85% ethanol/15% gasoline)than it did with100% gasoline?
ORIGINAL: d_ames117
In short, you will not create as much power using 10% ethanol/90% gas as you will using 100% gas (as I understand it).
Dustin
In short, you will not create as much power using 10% ethanol/90% gas as you will using 100% gas (as I understand it).
Dustin
Ifmixing ethanol with gasoline reducesan engine'spower output, like you're saying,then why did the Tahoe in the CR test runa faster 0-60 time with E85(85% ethanol/15% gasoline)than it did with100% gasoline?
Dustin
01-28-2008, 05:19 PM
#20
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 167
RE: Simplified fuel properties
ORIGINAL: Shard Phoenix
Ethanol burns cooler and has ahigher ignition point, which is great if you want to build a high compression engine or something with a lot of boost. But it also hasa lower caloric content (less energy by mass), meaning it requires more of it to create the same amount of power, in the same amount of time with an engine of similar efficiency.
Lower octane gasoline has a lower ignition temp, and burns hotter than higher octane while also having a slightly lower potential amount of energy release. Meaning you can getalmost the same out of it, but its harder on the engine, you wont be able to safely advance timing as much as with premium fuels, and you risk the safety of your engine.
Ethanol is also hard on seals and fuel pump components, any engine can burn E-85, but it chews up fuel lines and injectors, thats why EEV vehicles have teflon coated fuel components... to survive it. Ethanol also burns considerably cleaner than regular gasoline, less hydrocarbon and nox emmision.
All in all, keep the ethenol in the greenhouse vehicles, and let your mustang run happily along on the 91 tune and fuel. Chances are if your seeing better fuel economy and its running smoother, then your engine is running more efficiently on the dino oil. If you cant tell the seat of the pants difference, then your just running 94 for dick measurement and to be able to say "i run sunoco 94". These engines, and stock tunes were designed to run plain ol' 87 fuel, and its completely fine for them. We areall trying to get the most out ofour mustangs,but the difference between a 91 and 94 tune is probably (no i havent done any calculations)so miniscule that it doesnt make up for the loss of caloric energy that the ethanol blend puts into the mix.If you go to FI, or a high compression build and want to really be able to max a safe tune start using ethanol blends (also known as Oxygenated fuels), but a mustang with a few bolt ons will thank you for the petrolium, and you can use the money saved at the pump on a new Bolt-on to make up the negligable if any power difference.
Ethanol burns cooler and has ahigher ignition point, which is great if you want to build a high compression engine or something with a lot of boost. But it also hasa lower caloric content (less energy by mass), meaning it requires more of it to create the same amount of power, in the same amount of time with an engine of similar efficiency.
Lower octane gasoline has a lower ignition temp, and burns hotter than higher octane while also having a slightly lower potential amount of energy release. Meaning you can getalmost the same out of it, but its harder on the engine, you wont be able to safely advance timing as much as with premium fuels, and you risk the safety of your engine.
Ethanol is also hard on seals and fuel pump components, any engine can burn E-85, but it chews up fuel lines and injectors, thats why EEV vehicles have teflon coated fuel components... to survive it. Ethanol also burns considerably cleaner than regular gasoline, less hydrocarbon and nox emmision.
All in all, keep the ethenol in the greenhouse vehicles, and let your mustang run happily along on the 91 tune and fuel. Chances are if your seeing better fuel economy and its running smoother, then your engine is running more efficiently on the dino oil. If you cant tell the seat of the pants difference, then your just running 94 for dick measurement and to be able to say "i run sunoco 94". These engines, and stock tunes were designed to run plain ol' 87 fuel, and its completely fine for them. We areall trying to get the most out ofour mustangs,but the difference between a 91 and 94 tune is probably (no i havent done any calculations)so miniscule that it doesnt make up for the loss of caloric energy that the ethanol blend puts into the mix.If you go to FI, or a high compression build and want to really be able to max a safe tune start using ethanol blends (also known as Oxygenated fuels), but a mustang with a few bolt ons will thank you for the petrolium, and you can use the money saved at the pump on a new Bolt-on to make up the negligable if any power difference.
your post really helped me. I really could care less about 94 to be honest.. If i could get it at 100Gas then it's a no brainer but this wholoe ethanol nonsense has turned me off. after running sunoco 94 for the past 2 months all it's done for me, it seems, it increase my trip to the pumps.
I've now burned 1/2 tank of Shell 91 and already notice a difference in Mileage.. i'm at 195km per 1/2 tank on the Shell 91 where normally i'd be 3/8th's on Sunoco. Nothing's changed.. my driving style, the amount of time i auto start nothing.. the Shell 91 just yields more mileage and feels better in the car.
LOL @ the Dick measurement though. that was good for a laugh!
