REBUILD TALK - Episode I
01-30-2008, 03:19 PM
#1
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REBUILD TALK - Episode I
BLOCKS...
If I leave any out, please add them to the thread guys.
Of course the stock S197 block - This is an aluminum block and runs around $1000-$1100. I have said before and will say again that even though you are saving some money doing your motor build on your stock block, you should seriously consider that your car is at the mercy of the build. You have no 'back-ups' this way and you will also be without your car for as long as the build takes. If this is okay with you - then great, but be sure to think about it carefully before trying to save a few bucks right off the bat IMO.
The 'Cobra' block - this is technically the ROMEO Iron block and IMO is the cheapest and best solution for most build needs. These range in price depending on where you by up to about $500. The cheapest I have seen is MMR for $399.00. Though this is obviously a little heavier, it is a great block and works well with a budget.
The Teksid Aluminum block is another choice but you'll have to find one left over in stock or find a used one cause they stopped production around 98'-99' and they go for anywhere form $250-$1000.
Now we have the new Ford 'Boss' or "Big Bore' block. This is an iron blcok that comes with beefy custom sleeves and about 1-1 1/2" larger web spacing and is a serious block for serious builds. This block comes set with a 3.700 stoke so it will make around 300ci as it is. I have sonic tested this block and discovered that although you can go a little bigger, the SAFE limit to this thing is about a 3.800 stroke with a maximum of .020 over to get you about 331ci. A couple guys have gone even safer and gone a .005 over and that will net you about 326ci. This block is kick **** but will cost you for it. It runs about $2000-$2400. The cheapest I have seen it is through Adam at ST Motorsports for $2000. He is also one of the few places I know that has them in stock. These blocks are serious and overkill if you're not looking for big cubes and BIG power and you also need to hurry if you want one cause Ford just closed the Windsor plant and rumor has it they are going to discontinue this block even though it has recently come out...
Now the question I get frequently is, "which block will handle what power?"
Well the truth is I have not heard of a single failure with any of the blocks listed above up to a 1000 hp so you should be good with any of them and your choice should come down to cost & weight you want IMO. For most, the Romeo (or Cobra) iron block is the best choice because of cost and it's not dramatically heavier than the aluminum. If weight is a big issue for you, then I would search for a Teksid deal first and if you can't find it, go with a Ford block.
If you are looking for a complete shortblock - then I recommend you wait for another episode of 'REBUILD TALK' when we get into 'rotating assemblies' so you can make sure you are getting the proper rotating assembly with your motor cause there are some big differences in parts. Don't jump on a motor just because it seems like a 'good deal'. Take a hard look at exactly what parts are being used inside...
Until next time - coffee cake is neither coffee nor cake...discuss...[8D]
CK
If I leave any out, please add them to the thread guys.
Of course the stock S197 block - This is an aluminum block and runs around $1000-$1100. I have said before and will say again that even though you are saving some money doing your motor build on your stock block, you should seriously consider that your car is at the mercy of the build. You have no 'back-ups' this way and you will also be without your car for as long as the build takes. If this is okay with you - then great, but be sure to think about it carefully before trying to save a few bucks right off the bat IMO.
The 'Cobra' block - this is technically the ROMEO Iron block and IMO is the cheapest and best solution for most build needs. These range in price depending on where you by up to about $500. The cheapest I have seen is MMR for $399.00. Though this is obviously a little heavier, it is a great block and works well with a budget.
The Teksid Aluminum block is another choice but you'll have to find one left over in stock or find a used one cause they stopped production around 98'-99' and they go for anywhere form $250-$1000.
Now we have the new Ford 'Boss' or "Big Bore' block. This is an iron blcok that comes with beefy custom sleeves and about 1-1 1/2" larger web spacing and is a serious block for serious builds. This block comes set with a 3.700 stoke so it will make around 300ci as it is. I have sonic tested this block and discovered that although you can go a little bigger, the SAFE limit to this thing is about a 3.800 stroke with a maximum of .020 over to get you about 331ci. A couple guys have gone even safer and gone a .005 over and that will net you about 326ci. This block is kick **** but will cost you for it. It runs about $2000-$2400. The cheapest I have seen it is through Adam at ST Motorsports for $2000. He is also one of the few places I know that has them in stock. These blocks are serious and overkill if you're not looking for big cubes and BIG power and you also need to hurry if you want one cause Ford just closed the Windsor plant and rumor has it they are going to discontinue this block even though it has recently come out...
Now the question I get frequently is, "which block will handle what power?"
Well the truth is I have not heard of a single failure with any of the blocks listed above up to a 1000 hp so you should be good with any of them and your choice should come down to cost & weight you want IMO. For most, the Romeo (or Cobra) iron block is the best choice because of cost and it's not dramatically heavier than the aluminum. If weight is a big issue for you, then I would search for a Teksid deal first and if you can't find it, go with a Ford block.
If you are looking for a complete shortblock - then I recommend you wait for another episode of 'REBUILD TALK' when we get into 'rotating assemblies' so you can make sure you are getting the proper rotating assembly with your motor cause there are some big differences in parts. Don't jump on a motor just because it seems like a 'good deal'. Take a hard look at exactly what parts are being used inside...
Until next time - coffee cake is neither coffee nor cake...discuss...[8D]
CK
01-30-2008, 03:29 PM
#2
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,726
RE: REBUILD TALK - Episode I
I have read much recently that the 05-08 aluminum block is actually stronger than the Teksid block. This information was posted on some Mustang forums and one of the articles in race pages metioned this too. If I remember correctly they cited stronger webbing, and 4 bolt mains for most of the main caps. I also heard the 4.6 aluminator block is based on this block.
Considering you need adapters to use the Teksid block, the 05-08 block appeals more to me than a Teksid block, as far as aluminum blocks go.
Considering you need adapters to use the Teksid block, the 05-08 block appeals more to me than a Teksid block, as far as aluminum blocks go.
01-30-2008, 03:35 PM
#3
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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RE: REBUILD TALK - Episode I
This is true and great input killer. The reality is though that I couldn't find a failure on either so despite the fact the ford block has better webbing, 4 bolt mains, I don't think you would run into troubles with either for the majority of the power level builds guys want to do. Because of this, then I think it would come down to finding a great deal. Yes, I would prefer the ford block, but if you were to find a Teksid for $200 or so, you would save quite a bit of money and still be okay IMO.
The debate would really be only if you found a Teksid for a great price I think. At equal or even close to equal prices, I wouldn't hesitate to go with the Ford over the Teksid.
The debate would really be only if you found a Teksid for a great price I think. At equal or even close to equal prices, I wouldn't hesitate to go with the Ford over the Teksid.
01-30-2008, 06:29 PM
#7
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 889
RE: REBUILD TALK - Episode I
Wasn't someone building a new 6.0L modular block?
Maybe I'm confused (<- not the first time)
This one:
600 HP 6.0L DOHC CRATE ENGINE
The Sean Hyland 600 HP Crate Engine utilizes our 6 liter aluminum block, billet steel main caps, forged steel crankshaft, forged H beam rods, forged pistons. The Ford GT 4 valve cylinder heads use SHM camshafts to operate the valves. A 4bbl Demon carb sits on an aluminum intake, and the ignition is provided with a crank trigger system. The engine comes complete with air filter, water pump, and one wire alternator. Perfect for street rods and project cars.
Dunno whether or not it would fit.
And then there's the guy that put the 427 side oiler in.....
Maybe I'm confused (<- not the first time)
This one:
600 HP 6.0L DOHC CRATE ENGINE
The Sean Hyland 600 HP Crate Engine utilizes our 6 liter aluminum block, billet steel main caps, forged steel crankshaft, forged H beam rods, forged pistons. The Ford GT 4 valve cylinder heads use SHM camshafts to operate the valves. A 4bbl Demon carb sits on an aluminum intake, and the ignition is provided with a crank trigger system. The engine comes complete with air filter, water pump, and one wire alternator. Perfect for street rods and project cars.
Dunno whether or not it would fit.
And then there's the guy that put the 427 side oiler in
.....
01-30-2008, 06:58 PM
#9
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 889
RE: REBUILD TALK - Episode I
I thought for sure in one of these forums I had run across someone building an engine based on the SHM 6.0 modular block. He was b*tching becuase it looked like UPS dropped it before they delivered it.[
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