Steeda's Revolutionary “Adaptive Performance Calibration”
02-27-2008, 05:45 PM
#21
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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RE: Steeda's Revolutionary “Adaptive Performance Calibration”
Yes and this is the reason I am giving you guys this information. This is NOT a thread to bash steeda. The truth is this site doesn't get a lot of technical advancements unless myself or a few others bring it. I am still in the process of verifying this mod and just keeping you guys in the loop during the process. I could always just wait until it's all said done and then let you guys know about it...[8D]
If this thing turns out be be what they are claiming - then it is a GREAT mod for the majority of the market. I'm just getting all the facts before I put my 'seal of approval' on it...
In regards to the last comment from steeda....
This actually brought out a lot of fact cause their is definitely some BS here. If there is BS here, then I'm concerned where else it is...
For example, some of the comments from the pros after the above statement...
Again - this isn't saying the product is FOS either. It could very well be just some over excitement and misinformatrion on the actual product at steedas part. This may be a great thing, but I do think steeda is and is going to be guilty of over-marketing it. I'm giving them the chance to get their facts together tomorrow and give me some real data on the product.
CK
If this thing turns out be be what they are claiming - then it is a GREAT mod for the majority of the market. I'm just getting all the facts before I put my 'seal of approval' on it...
In regards to the last comment from steeda....
I'm getting ready to leave the office, but I'm trying to explain how it accounts for octane without giving away secrets. Let's just say for now till I can get a better explanation tomorrow, that it doesn't just use the knock sensors for that. I have to talk to the big boys here to double check with what I am allowed to disclose.
Oh, by the way, change your gear ratio or tire/ rim size with this setup, just drive away from the shop. No need to break out your handheld and change parameters.
Oh, by the way, change your gear ratio or tire/ rim size with this setup, just drive away from the shop. No need to break out your handheld and change parameters.
For example, some of the comments from the pros after the above statement...
No offense but how is the PCM supposed to see a change in tire size or gear ratio when the ONLY input the PCM uses for speed is the OSS in the tailshaft housing of the trans?
With the claims Steeda, you and other Steeda employees on other sites are making about this new magic tune people are going to need to see a lot more proof to believe this.
With the claims Steeda, you and other Steeda employees on other sites are making about this new magic tune people are going to need to see a lot more proof to believe this.
I'd suggest learning your product better before making the above claims, the below is STRAIGHT from Steeda's website: http://www.steeda.com/faq/?View=entry&EntryID=19
Originally Posted by Steeda
Reprogramming of the vehicle for the Adaptive Performance Calibration will be accomplished by one of two methods:
Directly at Steeda Autosports facilities. A consumer would send their ECM in a pre-paid FedEx box to Steeda, and receive the reflashed ECM back within two days
With a new state-of-the-art handheld diagnostic flash tool/interface currently under final development and will be available for sale in the 3rd Quarter of 2008.. In addition to handling all of the functions for reprogramming the engine management system with the Adaptive Calibration software, this tool provides for easy adjustment as necessary for tire size changes and axle ratio modifications, read and log any OBD parameters or external sensor data, read and clear diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) and much–much more. With a large sized LCD screen and keypad the flash tool provides the vehicle user with a robust and user friendly interface.
This clearly states that a handheld tuner will be needed to make gear ratio and tire size changes. As this isn't listed in the advantages of sending the PCM to Steeda.
Originally Posted by Steeda
Reprogramming of the vehicle for the Adaptive Performance Calibration will be accomplished by one of two methods:
Directly at Steeda Autosports facilities. A consumer would send their ECM in a pre-paid FedEx box to Steeda, and receive the reflashed ECM back within two days
With a new state-of-the-art handheld diagnostic flash tool/interface currently under final development and will be available for sale in the 3rd Quarter of 2008.. In addition to handling all of the functions for reprogramming the engine management system with the Adaptive Calibration software, this tool provides for easy adjustment as necessary for tire size changes and axle ratio modifications, read and log any OBD parameters or external sensor data, read and clear diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) and much–much more. With a large sized LCD screen and keypad the flash tool provides the vehicle user with a robust and user friendly interface.
This clearly states that a handheld tuner will be needed to make gear ratio and tire size changes. As this isn't listed in the advantages of sending the PCM to Steeda.
It was such a ludicrous statement that I reread all of the marketing BS and read the FAQs on this magic tune. Even with accelerometers it would be impossible to account for gear ratio or tire size changes. The only thing that could accurately account for those changes would be integrating a GPS into the PCM.
CK
02-27-2008, 05:51 PM
#22
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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RE: Steeda's Revolutionary “Adaptive Performance Calibration”
I skimmed through the thread so this might have been said.
Im with you guys in thinking it will work just fine for mild modded cars but not for a turbo, s/c, nitrous, etc... Unless there is some sort of interface on the computer where you can actually almost start it off with a base tune for FI. ie: 60lb injectors, MAF placement, Turbo/SC, about of boost, compression, displacement, etc...and it adjusts itself accordingly.If someone did that I would pay just about anything for it.
Im with you guys in thinking it will work just fine for mild modded cars but not for a turbo, s/c, nitrous, etc... Unless there is some sort of interface on the computer where you can actually almost start it off with a base tune for FI. ie: 60lb injectors, MAF placement, Turbo/SC, about of boost, compression, displacement, etc...and it adjusts itself accordingly.If someone did that I would pay just about anything for it.
02-27-2008, 05:54 PM
#23
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: California
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RE: Steeda's Revolutionary “Adaptive Performance Calibration”
ORIGINAL: howarmat
Steeda claims 38 HP from their CAI/Tune combo.....i have never seen just a tune and CAI deliver tose results.....30 is about the most i have even seen, even dyno tunes dont pull that much in
ORIGINAL: F1Fan
Hey howarmat,
What "guys also claim 38 hp from just a a CAI/tune?"
HTH!
Cheers!
ORIGINAL: howarmat
these guys also claim 38 HP from just a CAI/tune
....i agree if it works it is best for lightly modded cars, this sounds like the similar technology that the new bullets use.
these guys also claim 38 HP from just a CAI/tune
....i agree if it works it is best for lightly modded cars, this sounds like the similar technology that the new bullets use.
What "guys also claim 38 hp from just a a CAI/tune?"
HTH!
Cheers!
WOW! 38RWHP? I know for a fact that on the 3 or 4 Dynojets I've had my car onthere is NFW they could possibly see 38RWHP (SAE smoothing 5)from even a bone stockmanual car and their bigger CAI intake.The most I ever saw on a Dynojetwas 30RWHP peak on the bigintake tube 90mm Steeda CAI and a bonestock manual trans GT. My car only got 25RWHP but of course it had other breathing enhancemennts installed. Of course that number could have been produced using an uncorrected dyno with no smoothing which could easily add 5-10RWHP. Try it next time you go toa Dynojetdyno shop, just ask them to use standard correction and turn smoothing off, then you will get hero level RWHP readings from your car or any previous pulls. This is why I laugh at people when they tell me they saw a carpulling 375-380RWHP N/A on pump gas and yet the car is only doing 103mph through the traps. Magic horsepower numbers.
HTH!
02-27-2008, 05:57 PM
#24
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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Posts: 600
RE: Steeda's Revolutionary “Adaptive Performance Calibration”
Again - this isn't saying the product is FOS either. It could very well be just some over excitement and misinformatrion on the actual product at steedas part. This may be a great thing, but I do think steeda is and is going to be guilty of over-marketing it. I'm giving them the chance to get their facts together tomorrow and give me some real data on the product.
02-27-2008, 06:06 PM
#26
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Posts: 87
RE: Steeda's Revolutionary “Adaptive Performance Calibration”
ORIGINAL: modaddict
And this was the response from Steeda...
...
And this was the response from Steeda...
...Oh, by the way, change your gear ratio or tire/ rim size with this setup, just drive away from the shop. No need to break out your handheld and change parameters.
--
dbspcl
02-27-2008, 06:11 PM
#27
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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RE: Steeda's Revolutionary “Adaptive Performance Calibration”
ORIGINAL: modaddict
Okay this was the response from Steeda...
I'll tell you, for me, my problem is this is too much 'it's secret science' answer for me. The fact it is published on the website and a for sale marketing campaign makes me leary why steeda resorts to the 'secret science' defense without answering the technical questions. I'm not making a judgment on this either way at this point in time - just bringing you guys the info as I interpret it.
I'm personally not that impressed with the response from steeda to the technical aspects of the program. I do bleive it only measures octane and changes by use of the knock sensors and that is not very good IMO as I prefer presetting the tables with diablo or SCT rather than waiting for knock to occur before doing anything about it. Steeda mentions the 600 HP range, but so far I am still convinced this is only a good mod for the 450 and under hp range but I'm reserving final judgement till I get more facts. [8D]
Okay this was the response from Steeda...
If you are looking for us to tell you exactly how the system will figure out exactly where the air/fuel ratio should be regardless of modifications using the existing engine sensors, that kind of technical info I am not allowed to publish. Sorry. Octane measurement is naturally through knock sensor input, and no, it is not done like the current factory calibration does it, which will only support 87 octane in factory form or whatever octane level you tune for with custom tuning. The problem is most people assume you only have limited resources for controlling the engine cause you are only looking at the parameters typically available through common tuning systems such as SCT tuning software. There are thousands of total parameters to an ECU and the aftermarket companies do not have anywhere near complete control of the processor and cannot achieve what this calibration can do. Don't take that as a knock on companies like SCT though. SCT is the best at what they do and an invaluable tool to the performance aftermarket. This system however is much more advanced.
Yes it will adapt for E85 fuel, that's what one of the driving forces for Ford working on this with us.
As for the blow thru systems for 1000+ hp applications, this system isn't meant for that at all. It's meant to be for 600 crank hp applications at this point in time. Unfortunatley I can't get into how everything works here, as it's confidential information, but no it doesn't require a wideband, and the level of computational sophistication is amazing
Yes it will adapt for E85 fuel, that's what one of the driving forces for Ford working on this with us.
As for the blow thru systems for 1000+ hp applications, this system isn't meant for that at all. It's meant to be for 600 crank hp applications at this point in time. Unfortunatley I can't get into how everything works here, as it's confidential information, but no it doesn't require a wideband, and the level of computational sophistication is amazing
I'm personally not that impressed with the response from steeda to the technical aspects of the program. I do bleive it only measures octane and changes by use of the knock sensors and that is not very good IMO as I prefer presetting the tables with diablo or SCT rather than waiting for knock to occur before doing anything about it. Steeda mentions the 600 HP range, but so far I am still convinced this is only a good mod for the 450 and under hp range but I'm reserving final judgement till I get more facts. [8D]
Hi modaddict,
It's not so much a secret as probably not well understood. It is certainly possible to use a narrow band O2 sensor to indirectly measure A/Fwith a little bit of time given the way narrow band O2 sensors work. I think this has been known for some time as I figured it out years ago. The problem at the time wasI could not hot rodthe Bosch ECU processor speed,memory capacityor rewrite the stock emission certified programcode as my work was centered on using OEproduction products.
HTH!
02-27-2008, 06:13 PM
#28
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles FTW!
Posts: 87
RE: Steeda's Revolutionary “Adaptive Performance Calibration”
Duh.. should have read through the whole thread first. You put the revs per mile into their tool instead of the tuner. Marketing doubletalk.
--
dbspcl
--
dbspcl
02-27-2008, 06:14 PM
#29
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: CA
Posts: 600
RE: Steeda's Revolutionary “Adaptive Performance Calibration”
ORIGINAL: dbspcl
This part from Steeda has to be a joke, right? Change your tire size and 'this setup' somehow recalculates revs per mile? How could it possibly do that?
--
dbspcl
ORIGINAL: modaddict
And this was the response from Steeda...
...
And this was the response from Steeda...
...Oh, by the way, change your gear ratio or tire/ rim size with this setup, just drive away from the shop. No need to break out your handheld and change parameters.
--
dbspcl
I just thought of something, a way they maybe figuring it out. A routine in the firmware the calculates what gears by the speed and rpm it is at at can correct it that way. Just a thought. I am a programmer, so I think of how to do algorythms.
02-27-2008, 06:16 PM
#30
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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RE: Steeda's Revolutionary “Adaptive Performance Calibration”
ORIGINAL: dbspcl
This part from Steeda has to be a joke, right? Change your tire size and 'this setup' somehow recalculates revs per mile? How could it possibly do that?
--
dbspcl
ORIGINAL: modaddict
And this was the response from Steeda...
...
And this was the response from Steeda...
...Oh, by the way, change your gear ratio or tire/ rim size with this setup, just drive away from the shop. No need to break out your handheld and change parameters.
--
dbspcl
I think this is a mistaken statement. At the very least the ECUwould need to know with certainty at least one parameter likerear axle gear ratio to know what you changed as far as tire size goes. The rest could be calculated and corrected for.
HTH!