Fail Safe Engine Mode - 05 GT - K&N Cold Air
04-21-2008, 08:15 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 33
Fail Safe Engine Mode - 05 GT - K&N Cold Air
OK fellas, we drove to Dallas and picked up my wifes car on Friday. Straight there and back. Now I have a problem with the car and need some help from you experts. It's a long story but I think I need to tell the whole tale.
The car was posted on ebay and in the pictures there was an aftermarket air filter evident. During the discussions with the dealer, I found out that they had swapped out the aftermarket air filter for the stock filter. I told them I wanted the aftermarket filter put back on it. When we got there to pick it up, they had not installed the aftermarket filter yet but they had bought a new one and let me have it to put on myself. It was a K&N cold air kit. The one in the picture that was on the car at one time doesn't appear to be the whole enchilada, but rather, just a filter. The K&N was the whole kit with the plastic air plenum and everything.
Anyway, Sat morning we unloaded the car for our first test drive and there was a message on the dash that read "Fail Safe Engine Mode". I had no idea what this meant but as soon as the car reached 3500 RPM it shut down. Didn't quit, just shut power down.
I figured it had something to do with the factory intake being put back on it, so I installed the new K&N kit. Same problem.
So I took it to a dealer who put it on his computer. He said there was a code indicating a bad mass air flow sensor. We put in a new one and still had the same problem. However, the "Fail Safe Engine Mode" message went away after a short while. The service engine light however stays on.
The local dealer told me he wanted me to put the factory air box and plenum back on and bring it back to him to diagnose again, and he said that the code he was reading could also mean there was a bad throttle body.
He also said the car was running really rich. Not even sure what a throttle body is, but would problems with the throttle body cause a rich fuel mixture?
I think in my very first "New Member" post on here, someone indicated that since the car had an aftermarket air filter that it had possibly been reprogrammed so I asked the local dealer if he could tell that. He said that there didn't appear to have been one installed, but he couldn't tell for sure. He said sometimes they're not evident, or possibly the dealer in Texas had reflashed the computer.
Anyone have any idea what's going on? Should I call K&N? Should I try to buy a programmer and tune it up some to allow for the after market filter?
Please help me cause I really know nothing about engines except for what I've learned on the internet. Forgive me if I'm not referring to these parts the correct way.
Here's a picture of the intake that was on the car originally, before the dealer in Texas swapped it out for the factory intake.
The car was posted on ebay and in the pictures there was an aftermarket air filter evident. During the discussions with the dealer, I found out that they had swapped out the aftermarket air filter for the stock filter. I told them I wanted the aftermarket filter put back on it. When we got there to pick it up, they had not installed the aftermarket filter yet but they had bought a new one and let me have it to put on myself. It was a K&N cold air kit. The one in the picture that was on the car at one time doesn't appear to be the whole enchilada, but rather, just a filter. The K&N was the whole kit with the plastic air plenum and everything.
Anyway, Sat morning we unloaded the car for our first test drive and there was a message on the dash that read "Fail Safe Engine Mode". I had no idea what this meant but as soon as the car reached 3500 RPM it shut down. Didn't quit, just shut power down.
I figured it had something to do with the factory intake being put back on it, so I installed the new K&N kit. Same problem.
So I took it to a dealer who put it on his computer. He said there was a code indicating a bad mass air flow sensor. We put in a new one and still had the same problem. However, the "Fail Safe Engine Mode" message went away after a short while. The service engine light however stays on.
The local dealer told me he wanted me to put the factory air box and plenum back on and bring it back to him to diagnose again, and he said that the code he was reading could also mean there was a bad throttle body.
He also said the car was running really rich. Not even sure what a throttle body is, but would problems with the throttle body cause a rich fuel mixture?
I think in my very first "New Member" post on here, someone indicated that since the car had an aftermarket air filter that it had possibly been reprogrammed so I asked the local dealer if he could tell that. He said that there didn't appear to have been one installed, but he couldn't tell for sure. He said sometimes they're not evident, or possibly the dealer in Texas had reflashed the computer.
Anyone have any idea what's going on? Should I call K&N? Should I try to buy a programmer and tune it up some to allow for the after market filter?
Please help me cause I really know nothing about engines except for what I've learned on the internet. Forgive me if I'm not referring to these parts the correct way.
Here's a picture of the intake that was on the car originally, before the dealer in Texas swapped it out for the factory intake.
04-21-2008, 08:48 AM
#2
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 26
RE: Fail Safe Engine Mode - 05 GT - K&N Cold Air
Since the status of the current tune (stock or aftermarket) is not known for sure, maybe the thing to do would be to have your dealer
load the current version of thestock tune andreinstall the factory intake and filter. With the car's tune and intakefully back to stock, you
could see if there are still any issues. If not or after resolving any issues,you could thenpurchase a programmer with custom tunes specifically
for the new K&N intake from Brenspeed, Bamachips, ect. Not an expert by any means, but that's what I do anyway.
load the current version of thestock tune andreinstall the factory intake and filter. With the car's tune and intakefully back to stock, you
could see if there are still any issues. If not or after resolving any issues,you could thenpurchase a programmer with custom tunes specifically
for the new K&N intake from Brenspeed, Bamachips, ect. Not an expert by any means, but that's what I do anyway.
04-21-2008, 08:52 AM
#3
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 328
RE: Fail Safe Engine Mode - 05 GT - K&N Cold Air
that doesn't look like the k&n filter but the steeda or ford racing one.you might need a tune for that.i would check into to that.if you have an auto zone there.they will check the engine light for free and if it reads that its running lean,then you need a custom tune for that filter.
04-21-2008, 09:01 AM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 33
RE: Fail Safe Engine Mode - 05 GT - K&N Cold Air
ORIGINAL: 06musgt
that doesn't look like the k&n filter but the steeda or ford racing one.you might need a tune for that.i would check into to that.if you have an auto zone there.they will check the engine light for free and if it reads that its running lean,then you need a custom tune for that filter.
that doesn't look like the k&n filter but the steeda or ford racing one.you might need a tune for that.i would check into to that.if you have an auto zone there.they will check the engine light for free and if it reads that its running lean,then you need a custom tune for that filter.
I'm trying now to get the contact info on the PO to speak to him in person to find out exactly what filter he was running and whether or not he had a custom tune installed. Y'all keep the suggestions coming and help as much as possible. Thanks in advance for your help. My wife is really excited to have her new car, but really dissapointed that we're having this trouble with it. I'm trying my best to keep her convinced that it's a minor deal but I need to get it worked out as quickly as possible.
04-21-2008, 09:13 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 33
RE: Fail Safe Engine Mode - 05 GT - K&N Cold Air
ORIGINAL: Baby John
That is not the K&N filter. That is the one that was on the car originally. What I'm running now is the K&N, but if what you're saying is true, then it sounds like it's likely that the PO had a custom tune installed on the car.
I'm trying now to get the contact info on the PO to speak to him in person to find out exactly what filter he was running and whether or not he had a custom tune installed. Y'all keep the suggestions coming and help as much as possible. Thanks in advance for your help. My wife is really excited to have her new car, but really dissapointed that we're having this trouble with it. I'm trying my best to keep her convinced that it's a minor deal but I need to get it worked out as quickly as possible.
ORIGINAL: 06musgt
that doesn't look like the k&n filter but the steeda or ford racing one.you might need a tune for that.i would check into to that.if you have an auto zone there.they will check the engine light for free and if it reads that its running lean,then you need a custom tune for that filter.
that doesn't look like the k&n filter but the steeda or ford racing one.you might need a tune for that.i would check into to that.if you have an auto zone there.they will check the engine light for free and if it reads that its running lean,then you need a custom tune for that filter.
I'm trying now to get the contact info on the PO to speak to him in person to find out exactly what filter he was running and whether or not he had a custom tune installed. Y'all keep the suggestions coming and help as much as possible. Thanks in advance for your help. My wife is really excited to have her new car, but really dissapointed that we're having this trouble with it. I'm trying my best to keep her convinced that it's a minor deal but I need to get it worked out as quickly as possible.
[IMG]local://upfiles/95262/3AA554E3834C431DB1180DFEBBF2658C.jpg[/IMG]
04-21-2008, 11:48 AM
#6
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DFW
Posts: 463
RE: Fail Safe Engine Mode - 05 GT - K&N Cold Air
The K&Nin the pic above is the same one that came on my car when I bought it used from the dealer. I've never had a problem. I don't know if the car has a custom tune on it or not, but I've heard with the K&N it doesn't need one.
I don't know what brand the blue one was that was originally on your car...it could've been a MAC...
I don't know what brand the blue one was that was originally on your car...it could've been a MAC...
04-21-2008, 11:56 AM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 33
RE: Fail Safe Engine Mode - 05 GT - K&N Cold Air
The dealer wants me to put the factory air intake back on the car and bring it back to him to re-check. He said that the code that tells him that the mass air flow sensor is bad is also the same code that says there's a problem with the throttle body.
I really don't want to put the factory intake back on it, and I'm having a hard time understanding why it would be necessary since the K&N information says that it shouldn't have an impact on the car's computer.
I'm thinking about just taking it back to him and telling him to pretend that it has the factory air intake on it, and do his check again. If he thinks that it's the throttle body, I'm just going to have him repair it as such.
FWIW, I had the dealer confirm that they did NOT reflash the computer in the car. I'm fairly convinced that the car has not had a performance tune.
I also read some other threads in other forums, that seem to be leading to the throttle body.
I really don't want to put the factory intake back on it, and I'm having a hard time understanding why it would be necessary since the K&N information says that it shouldn't have an impact on the car's computer.
I'm thinking about just taking it back to him and telling him to pretend that it has the factory air intake on it, and do his check again. If he thinks that it's the throttle body, I'm just going to have him repair it as such.
FWIW, I had the dealer confirm that they did NOT reflash the computer in the car. I'm fairly convinced that the car has not had a performance tune.
I also read some other threads in other forums, that seem to be leading to the throttle body.
04-21-2008, 12:15 PM
#9
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Coatesville, PA
Posts: 932
RE: Fail Safe Engine Mode - 05 GT - K&N Cold Air
It looks like your car had the MAC intake on it (which would have required a tune - see link):
http://www.apdperformance.com/534-3505.html
the dealer then put the stock airbox back in, perhaps without also putting the tune back to stock.
Now you are attempting to run the K & N with the car (perhaps) still tuned for the MAC intake.
I'd take it to the dealer and let them go all the way back to stock tune/airbox to get it sorted out...
http://www.apdperformance.com/534-3505.html
the dealer then put the stock airbox back in, perhaps without also putting the tune back to stock.
Now you are attempting to run the K & N with the car (perhaps) still tuned for the MAC intake.
I'd take it to the dealer and let them go all the way back to stock tune/airbox to get it sorted out...
04-21-2008, 01:22 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 33
RE: Fail Safe Engine Mode - 05 GT - K&N Cold Air
Thanks! That does look like the one that was on it and it seems to answer the question.
I'm talking to the dealer in Texas who sold me the car. I've asked him to just furnish me this MAC intake kit.
He says he's not touched the computer so it should still have the performance tune on it. Am I correct in thinking if I go with this MAC air intake that I should be back to where it was before? With a tune that matches the intake?
I know what you're saying is correct, but I'm trying to keep whatever performance upgrades have already been done to it. Once they put it back to stock, I'm fairly certain that I'll probably never attempt to do any further tuning, and I hate to give up any HP.
I'm talking to the dealer in Texas who sold me the car. I've asked him to just furnish me this MAC intake kit.
He says he's not touched the computer so it should still have the performance tune on it. Am I correct in thinking if I go with this MAC air intake that I should be back to where it was before? With a tune that matches the intake?
I know what you're saying is correct, but I'm trying to keep whatever performance upgrades have already been done to it. Once they put it back to stock, I'm fairly certain that I'll probably never attempt to do any further tuning, and I hate to give up any HP.