tooslow

im getting a strocker short block for my 06 , 4.6 k.b int /the engine builder said we could run up to 20lbs on pump gas ? w/o meth from what i no this is not possible ? should i look somewhere else?

tached_out

That is ALLOT boost for pump gas. I don't know much about tuning with KB's but it would be an extremely conservative tune probably.

I would probably look into 16psi and then have two tunes. One with race fuel and the other pump.

What fuel system do you plan on making and how much power do you want? What other supporting mods do you have to handle that much power.

sidmanic

Pulley swaps are so easy with a KB there is no reason to even try it. Get a 16psi pulley for your street tune and get a 20psi pulley for your race tune.

tooslow

im still planning to run a meth inj/ block can handle 800 h.p 302/304 bore with strock i would like 700h.p but dont no if thats likely w/o that much boost not sure on fuel setup but i have a b.a.p , ill look into the shelby fuel pump setup, car made 476 at 10psi everything stock except s.charger

sidmanic

You will need to run that much boost to get those numbers but I don't think you will on pump gas.
You will need to upgrade the fuel system, probably the throttle body, you will need to go to an 8 rib setup, bigger injectors, your ignition will need some attention.

tached_out

I am not a big fan of meth.

My OPINION for all your plans. So dont get affended any one if you think other wise.

Meth is dangerous because if the system has any type of failure there is no going back. Your engine is done. Just run 110 at the track instead of Meth and you can make better numbers and be safe.

Your BAP with that much power is a tinker toy as is the GT500 pump. You can get away with the GT500 pump with two BAP for 700rwhp but I doubt 800 even with upgraded lines. You will need lethal performances new fuel system that they have collaberated to make. Which will support 3 GT40 Pumps, Billet Fuel Hat, MDM to power all the pumps, Lines, and Rails. No other system will support the power you have planned that I know about. Lethal has another system out right now but they are trying not to sale them because of the release of the new one. MMR has one as well but Lethal system is far superior. Cost is unknown but I would think it would be around 1700+

You will need some extensive suspension work as well, 1 pc drive shaft, I have seen stock rear ends hold together good with just upgraded girdles, but I have also only seen stock rear ends on 700ish cars not 800. The tranny wont last long and you will probably melt through clutches unless you are an auto. In that case you will need some mods to beef that up some more.

does KB have a 12 rib pulley kit? If not you will need the 8 Rib and a belt tensioner, Possibly an upgraded Intercooler (not sure what IC KB gives out) Black Diamond or Accufab Throttle Body because after i think 14psi you will have issues I have heard and not sure what the part is called but the elbow that the TB hooks to will need to be replaced as well for a more free flowing one. Sorry I am a Procharger guy so I dont know all the stuff for KB.

Next question I have to ask why do you want pump gas? Do you want 800rwhp on the street if so why do you need that much power on the street? 800rwhp with a KB on the street would mean around 800ftlbs of toque lol how long do you plan on having your tires for lol

I think if you can get a street tune of 650rwhp is enough for the street and a 750rwhp for the track would more then make you happy. The track is what matters any ways. With that much power it wouldnt matter what tires you had you would have some serious traction issues on the street, I am not sure if instant boost would be fun any more lol.

Be mindful on meth though the reason why allot of Turbo guys and Centrifugal guys run it is to make up for the lack of Torque we make as well as nitrous for us. There are so many upgrades to be done to have a car reach 800rwhp I am taking that path right now, and have spent a small fortune all ready just on supporting mods.

sidmanic

I agree with Tach above. Thats why I was suggesting just doing a pulley swap.
KB's 8 rib will hold 20 psi. There is a Kenne Bell Tech forum on M0dular F0rds that you might want to check out.

Androdz2

I completely disagree with you on watermethanol injection. on the fuel system and pretty much everything you have said on this post. 1st of all the lethal performance ultimate fuel system is riddled with problems as you ALREADY KNOW. 700hp with a gt500 setup is DOABLE there are some gt500's already running 710hp with their stock fuel system. You can lower your duty cycles with the dual BAP's. The triple fuel pump set-up is way over kill I would only consider it if you were over 1krwhp. I am with you on the daily driver 800rwhp with a KB that will be completely wasted power. If you were turbo it would be better because you can control the PSI per gear and RPM's which would make it much more streetable. The reason people use water methanol injection is because of TWO THINGS. 1. To lower the Temperature inside the combustion chamber(water) to reduce chance of detonation 2. To raise the octane of the gasoline to also reduce the chance of detonation. Here is a write-up I made on water methanol injection so that you can read and educate yourself on it.

After seeing various threads about water methanol injection I decided to dedicate a thread on more precise info. Mods please put on Table of contents! thanks

Water/meth injection is a great modification and can be used for basically all type of motorsports. Usually people use methanol and water already premixed in the form of windshield cleaning liquids that already come with a % of alcohol to lower the freezing temperature of the liquid in cold temperatures. But there is also people that have tanks in their house and do their own mixes 30%water/70%methanol, 50%water/50%methanol and then they are people that only use water or alcohol only.

Water helps to lower the temperature in the combustion chamber and the alcohol to increase the octane rating of the gasoline. Injecting water only you benefit by lowering the combustion temperature and you can increase timing/boost w/o having detonation. Injecting alcohol only you benefit from the increased octane rating that the alcohol provides and the octane rating for example from your regular 93 octane gas can go to 105 octane thus preventing even further detonation.

It is a great upgrade but at the same time it is very dangerous. I don’t know if you know that methanol is extremely dangerous if it is inhaled or if it comes into contact with skin; it is a cancerous substance. It is also extremely corrosive(For example cars that run with methanol for gasoline have to “flush” the fuel system after every race or event) having an extra plastic tank (with alcohol) in the trunk with alcohol lines going thru the cabin is extremely dangerous in an accident; it is a fire hazard. But also if it is used with caution and knowning how to use it with all necessary precautions it is a great upgrade it allows you to run almost as if you were running c16 on your gas tank and it is much cheaper than race gas.

There is a huge variety of water/alcohol injection systems (coolingmist, aquamist, hydramist, snow performance, fjo racing, devils own, etc…) Some work “stand alone” and others need to be connected to an engine management computer. They are simple systems that only include the tank, lines, fittings, bombs and the controller. After connecting everything, the controller needs a input of boost/vacuum or MAP/MAF input and you decide at how many pounds of boost (or vacuum N/A) is when you want the system to start injecting water/alcohol and at how many pounds you want it to stop, as you keep increasing boost most systems typically inject more water/methanol in a linear manner until reaching your max boost level. They are other systems that require input from the injector and the system “matches” the flow of water/alcohol with the injector flow.

It has been proved hundreds of times that only adding a water/methanol injection system w/o any other change in a/f ratios, boost or timing you are going to gain absolutely NOTHING… many even loose hp because the a/f is lowered exponentially.

One of the things that you have to keep in mind are “fail safes” for when the system fails. For example the pump stops working, the line gets clogged, your water/methanol tank is empty and you didn’t notice it and you are at full boost this typically means a blown motor. That is unless you have some sort of “fail safe” that allow the ecu of your car to change to a less aggressive map (93 octane only) or lower the wastegate boost among others.

I don’t know if you have seen pistons, valves and engine heads from a motor that uses water injection vs. one that does not use wat

Androdz2

http://www.labontemotorsports.com/st...how/VCS3G.html All the fail safe you need + you can put the 12v output signal to a waste gate to open it completely thus killing the boost.

Andrew

forensicsteve

We'll only go as far as 11 lbs on pump gas. The 16 and 20 lb tunes are on 116 octane. Even before the race tunes, when we ran the street tune at the track, we slipped in a gallon of 116 for insurance. The 11 lb pump gas tune produces 520/530. Since car does not street race at all, that's really way more than enough for the street. All the above is what we do...doesn't mean it's the only way or the best way...just what we're comfortable with.