RedNyt GT

Hey guys, need some help again. I cant seem to shake these damn codes since my Hot Rod cam install. I know a lot people said to replace the alt. I did do that. I have a buddy at Ford who got me another Ford alt to replace my original one. However, it was a refurbed one which he said should make no diff. Are the Ford ones just not good enough to get the job done ? I checked the cam position sensors and wiring (actually pulled the sensors to inspect them) and they all seem fine. I bought new cam phasers but not sure that will fix the issue either. Should I replace the sensors first ? Or do the sensors and the phasers while Im in there ? Car runs/sounds great.... Could it be in the tune ??? Please help this is driving me nuts. Thanks guys

hammeron

ok i have some ideas....

first, is it possible you switched the left
and right side CMP sensors?

if your not sure could you switch them and
let me know if the DTC's come back or stay
cleared

RedNyt GT

Hmmm, didnt know that it was possible to put the sensor on the "wrong" side. But its a good idea and certainly worth trying. I will give it a shot tomorrow. Any thoughts about using the refurbed alt ?? Should I have bought the $340 one from Rock Auto or wherever that was. Ahhh, the process of elimination is a beautiful thing... : (

mustanglouie

this must be a real bummer for ya man. Getting these cool sounding cams installed and you can't even fully enjoy them. I am glad my experience with these cams wasn't such a pain in the butt. I hope you figure it out soon and start really enjoying your new cams.

hammeron

yeah, looking at the manual again, i
think that is for a gear driven CMP
so scratch that idea....


the next thing is to check the CMP wiring,
all the way to the PCM connectors


it just seems to me, like you have a bad CMP
connector on the passenger side.

rojizostang

did this get figured out? i've got hot rod cams on the way and i start getting nervous when i hear about problems that might be related to them?

RedNyt GT

Still working on it.... trying to determine what next to try. I guess I can replace the sensors and wiring before putting in the new cam phasers. Im still wondering if the refurbed Ford alt isnt doing its job. I think I read that an oscillator (sp?) should be used to check the voltage. Does any one think it could be in the tune ? Thanks guys

turbotbirdguy79

Did you put in phasor limiters?That could be the problem.Anyway,heres some pinpints for ya to help you.That would be my guess. P0340 - Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Circuit Malfunction (Bank 1)
Description: The test fails when the powertrain control module (PCM) can no longer detect the signal from the CMP sensor on bank 1.
Possible Causes: CMP circuit open
CMP circuit short to GND
CMP circuit short to PWR
SIG RTN open (VR sensor)
CMP GND open (Hall-effect sensor)
CMP circuit short to CMP2 circuit (if equipped)
CMP incorrectly installed (Hall-effect sensor)
Damaged CMP sensor shielding
Damaged CMP sensor
Damaged PCM

Diagnostic Aids: Harness routing, harness alterations, improper shielding, or electrical interference from other improperly functioning systems may have an intermittent impact on the CMP signal.



Description: The test fails when the powertrain control module (PCM) detects an intermittent signal from the camshaft position (CMP) sensor.
Possible Causes: Intermittent open circuit
Intermittent short circuit
Damaged sensor shielding
Damaged sensor

Diagnostic Aids: Harness routing, harness alterations, improper shielding, or electrical interference from other improperly functioning systems may have an intermittent impact on the CMP signal.


DR1 CONTINUOUS MEMORY DTCS P0340, P0344, P0345 AND P0349: CHECK IF THE ENGINE WILL START
Attempt to start the engine.
Does the engine start?
Yes No
GO to DR2 . RETURN to Section 3 , Symptom Charts for further direction.

DR2 CLEAR AND ATTEMPT TO RETRIEVE THE DTC
Note: For vehicles with variable camshaft timing (VCT), concerns with the engine oil level, oil filter, oil contamination, or the VCT system may cause camshaft positioning errors.

Key ON, engine OFF.
Clear the PCM DTCs.
Key ON, engine running.
Increase engine speed to greater than 1,500 RPM for 10 seconds.
Repeat this 3 times.
Retrieve the continuous memory DTCs.
Are DTCs P0340, P0344, P0345 or P0349 present?
Yes No
For continuous memory DTCs P0340 and P0344, GO to DR3 .

For continuous memory DTCs P0345 and P0349, GO to DR11 . GO to Z1 .

DR3 DETERMINE THE CMP SENSOR PHYSICAL TYPE
Key in OFF position.
Is the CMP sensor a synchronizer (gear driven) type?
Yes No
GO to DR4 . GO to DR5 .

DR4 VERIFY THE CORRECT INSTALLATION OF THE CMP SENSOR
A CMP sensor identifies the cylinder 1 power stroke. A sensor that is improperly installed/indexed can identify the wrong cylinder as 1, produce a tip-in hesitation and generate a DTC.
Note: If the vehicle has a miss with DTC P0340 or P0344, ignition, alternator noise, RFI and CKP concerns should be considered.

Is the CMP sensor installed correctly?
Yes No
GO to DR5 . INSTALL the CMP sensor correctly.

REFER to the Workshop Manual Section 303-14, Electronic Engine Controls for additional information.

DR5 DETERMINE THE CMP SENSOR ELECTRONIC TYPE
Note: The variable reluctance (VR) sensors have 2-wire connectors, Hall-effect sensors have 3-wire connectors.

Is the CMP sensor a VR-type?
Yes No
Key in OFF position.

GO to DR6 . The CMP sensor is a Hall-effect type.

GO to DR17 .

DR6 CONTINUOUS MEMORY DTCS P0340 AND P0344: CHECK THE CMP SENSOR RESISTANCE
CMP Sensor connector disconnected.
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) CMP Sensor Connector, Component Side ( - ) CMP Sensor Connector, Component Side
CMP SIGRTN



Vehicle Low Limit High Limit
LS, Thunderbird 3.9L 1,850 Ohms 2,850 Ohms
F-150 300 Ohms 425 Ohms
All others 250 Ohms 1,000 Ohms


Is the resistance within specification?
Yes No
GO to DR7 . INSTALL a new CMP sensor. Clear the PCM DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DR7 CHECK THE CMP CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE IN THE HARNESS
PCM connector disconnected.
Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between:

( + ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side ( - ) Vehicle Battery
CMP Negative terminal


Is the voltage less than 1 V?
Yes No
Key in OFF position.

GO to DR8 . REPAIR the short circuit.

DR8 CHECK THE CMP CIRCUIT FOR AN OPEN IN THE HARNESS
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) PCM Connector, Harness Side ( - ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side
CMP CMP
SIGRTN SIGRTN


Are the resistances less than 5 ohms?
Yes No
GO to DR9 . REPAIR the open circuit.

DR9 CHECK FOR A SHORT IN THE HARNESS BETWEEN THE PCM AND THE CMP SENSOR
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side ( - ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side
CMP SIGRTN


Measure the resistance between:

( + ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side ( - ) Vehicle Battery
CMP Negative terminal
SIGRTN Negative terminal


The measurement can be performed at either the PCM or CMP harness connector.
Are the resistances greater than 10K ohms?
Yes No
GO to DR10 . REPAIR the short circuit.

DR10 CHECK THE CMP SENSOR OUTPUT
PCM connector connected.
CMP Sensor connector disconnected.
Digital multimeter on low voltage AC scale.
Measure the voltage between:

( + ) CMP Sensor Connector, Component Side ( - ) CMP Sensor Connector, Component Side
CMP SIGRTN


Run the engine at approximately 2,500 RPM.
Is the voltage greater than 0.25 V?
Yes No
For Expedition,

F-150 5.4L,

Mustang 4.6L, and

Navigator, GO to DR24 .

For all others, INSTALL a new PCM.

REFER to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM). INSTALL a new CMP sensor.

DR11 CONTINUOUS MEMORY DTCS P0345 AND P0349: CHECK THE CMP2 SENSOR RESISTANCE
Key in OFF position.
CMP2 Sensor connector disconnected.
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) CMP2 Sensor Connector, Component Side ( - ) CMP2 Sensor Connector, Component Side
CMP2 SIGRTN



Vehicle Low Limit High Limit
LS, Thunderbird 3.9L 1,850 Ohms 2,850 Ohms
F-150 300 Ohms 425 Ohms
All others 250 Ohms 1,000 Ohms


Is the resistance value(s) within specifications?
Yes No
GO to DR12 . INSTALL a new CMP2 sensor. Clear the PCM DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.

DR12 CHECK THE CMP2 CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE IN THE HARNESS
PCM connector disconnected.
Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between:

( + ) CMP2 Sensor Connector, Harness Side ( - ) Vehicle Battery
CMP2 Negative terminal


Is the voltage less than 1 V?
Yes No
Key in OFF position.

GO to DR13 . REPAIR the short circuit.

DR13 CHECK THE CMP2 CIRCUIT FOR AN OPEN IN THE HARNESS
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) PCM Connector, Harness Side ( - ) CMP2 Sensor Connector, Harness Side
CMP2 CMP2
SIGRTN SIGRTN


Are the resistances less than 5 ohms?
Yes No
GO to DR14 . REPAIR the open circuit.

DR14 CHECK FOR A SHORT IN THE HARNESS BETWEEN THE PCM AND THE CMP2 SENSOR
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) CMP2 Sensor Connector, Harness Side ( - ) CMP2 Sensor Connector, Harness Side
CMP2 SIGRTN


Measure the resistance between:

( + ) CMP2 Sensor Connector, Harness Side ( - ) Vehicle Battery
CMP2 Negative terminal
SIGRTN Negative terminal


Are the resistances greater than 10K ohms?
Yes No
GO to DR15 . REPAIR the short circuit.

DR15 CHECK FOR A SHORT BETWEEN THE CMP AND THE CMP2 CIRCUITS
CMP Sensor connector disconnected.
CMP2 Sensor connector disconnected.
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) PCM Connector, Harness Side ( - ) PCM Connector, Harness Side
CMP CMP2


Is the resistance greater than 10K ohms?
Yes No
GO to DR16 . REPAIR the short circuit.

DR16 CHECK THE CMP2 SENSOR OUTPUT
PCM connector connected.
Digital multimeter on low voltage AC scale.
Measure the voltage between:

( + ) CMP2 Sensor Connector, Component Side ( - ) CMP2 Sensor Connector, Component Side
CMP2 SIGRTN


Run the engine at approximately 2,500 RPM.
Is the voltage greater than 0.25 V?
Yes No
For Expedition,

F-150 5.4L,

Mustang 4.6L, and

Navigator, GO to DR24 .

For all others, INSTALL a new PCM.

REFER to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM). INSTALL a new CMP2 sensor.

DR17 CONTINUOUS MEMORY DTCS P0340 AND P0344: CHECK THE VPWR VOLTAGE TO CMP SENSOR
CMP Sensor connector disconnected.
Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between:

( + ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side ( - ) Vehicle Battery
VPWR Negative terminal


Is the voltage greater than 10.5 V?
Yes No
Key in OFF position.

GO to DR18 . Key in OFF position. REPAIR the open circuit.

DR18 CHECK THE PWRGND VOLTAGE TO CMP SENSOR
Measure the voltage between:

( + ) Vehicle Battery ( - ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side
Positive terminal PWRGND


Is the voltage greater than 10.5 V?
Yes No
GO to DR19 . REPAIR the open circuit.

DR19 CHECK THE CMP CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TO VOLTAGE IN THE HARNESS
PCM connector disconnected.
Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between:

( + ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side ( - ) Vehicle Battery
CMP Negative terminal


Is the voltage less than 1 V?
Yes No
Key in OFF position.

GO to DR20 . REPAIR the short circuit.

DR20 CHECK FOR AN OPEN CIRCUIT BETWEEN THE PCM AND CMP SENSOR
CMP Sensor connector disconnected.
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side ( - ) PCM Connector, Harness Side
CMP CMP


Is the resistance less than 5 ohms?
Yes No
GO to DR21 . REPAIR the open circuit.

DR21 CHECK THE CMP SENSOR CIRCUIT FOR A SHORT TO GND IN THE HARNESS
Note: The measurement may be taken at the PCM or CMP connector, whichever is easier to access.

Measure the resistance between:

( + ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side ( - ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side
CMP PWRGND


Is the resistance greater than 10K ohms?
Yes No
GO to DR22 . REPAIR the short circuit.

DR22 CHECK FOR SHORTS IN THE PCM
Measure the resistance between:

( + ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side ( - ) CMP Sensor Connector, Harness Side
CMP VPWR
CMP PWRGND


Are the resistances greater than 500 ohms?
Yes No
GO to DR23 . INSTALL a new PCM. REFER to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM).

DR23 CHECK THE CMP SENSOR OUTPUT DURING CRANK MODE
CMP Sensor connector connected.
Digital multimeter on low voltage DC scale.
Measure the voltage between:

( + ) PCM Connector, Harness Side ( - ) PCM Connector, Harness Side
CMP PWRGND


Crank the engine for at least 10 revolutions.
Does the voltage switch between LOW (less than 2 volts DC) and HIGH (greater than 8 volts DC)?
Yes No
INSTALL a new PCM. REFER to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM). INSTALL a new CMP sensor.

DR24 CHECK THE VARIABLE CAMSHAFT TIMING (VCT) SYSTEM
Note: Only diagnose the bank indicated by the DTC.

Check the VCT system for correct operation.
Is a concern present?
Yes No
REPAIR as necessary. INSTALL a new PCM. REFER to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM).




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RedNyt GT

buddy of mine that works at the dealership is going to scope the alt to see if its doing its job. If so, then I'll be replacing the cam phasers and sensors. Was told if the cam phasers got a bent ting it could cause this issue. If the alt is good and I replace those parts. God help me that should take care of it. If not, I have no idea.

Oh, I do not have any limiters or lockouts on the cams. Process of elmination is a bitch

hammeron

we're all rooting for ya RedNyt GT,
hopefully your buddy will come up
with something

i have another idea, but let's see what
the oscilliscope shows for DC ripple, before
we move on to that......