Cams or Longtubes?
 

Got some money saved up to get either cams or longtubes. Car is a daily driver with intake/tune, 4.10's, hurst sts, and stinger axleback.

Looking at either ford racing hot rod cams or the pypes longtubes with offroad h. Both are right around the same price with the cams roughly $100 more.

Which one of these will provide the best bang for the buck? Also, any estimates on average install costs for these two?

Thanks

Well wrx2stang, in my opinion it's not only the bang for the buck here,
I wouldn't put Cams in without some Headers. So ya, headers first and you will feel the difference...!!!

Headers.

You won't gain a lot with cams without headers (and CAI).

I recently got quotes for both a hot rod cam install and long tube / off-road x. The cam install price was $585 and the long tube install (including installation of polyurethane motor mounts) was $850.

Logical progression, however, as the other guys posted is to do the headers first.

Ok, so it sounds like its gonna be the longtubes. But $850 for the install! Thats more than I was gonna pay for the longtubes and off road h. Is that a normal install price?

Maybe I'll just give my buddy with a gto a call and see if we can get them put on. Is it very difficult to install them yourself or just time consuming?

I've never done it so don't quote me, but I'm under the impression you have to raise the motor some and remove a decent amount of hardware from the engine bay. Difficulty I can't comment on, but from several very respected shops I've been told it just takes time- like 9 hours in a shop, hence the install price. Sucks.

Yeah the install price is high for a reason. ;)

I had mine installed at my Uncle's shop where he has of course a lift and all the tools you could ever need and it took us a whole day. It was far from easy and jacking up the engine and taking a few parts off (like the starter, steering shaft, etc) was needed.

I have the Kooks headers which are supposed to be one of the easier sets to install. Heh.

I don't see how people do this on jack stands...

They're nuts!

Why are they nuts for doing it on jack stands?

i did long tubes and motor mounts and it really wasnt that hard. it took me a while, but i had some fitment issues. i used a garage pit and jack stands.

i paid 550 for installing LT's and o/r x pipe. no motor mounts tho.

Seems like a lot to spend. $450-550 for the headers, for cheap ones. Then another $500-800 for the install.

For what? 20-25 peak whp? Maybe a bit louder exhaust?

/yawn

Cause it sucks. Should be considered cruel and unusual punishment. Although I did do it when it was 90 degrees and 100% humidity.

You work in the rain? ;)

Since cams are out without longtubes and the longtubes are ridiculously expensive to have installed maybe I should look elsewhere.

Looking at Brenspeeds site I see two other options.

One is the two take off rims with the mickey thompson et streets for $650. Car will certainly hook a lot better but it wont do anything for me on the street. I do take the car to the track a few times a year and will certainly go more often if I got these.

Second option is the zex wet nitrous kit for $540. This will give me the most bang for the buck but im not sure how safe it will be for my daily driver. Also, Im fairly sure the stock tires will go up in smoke with a 75 shot. Anyone have any comments on this particular kit? Will I have to buy anything else or is that all I need? How much is it to have the bottle refilled? Install cost?

Those Zex kits are nice, but you have to be content with a 75-100 shot. Otherwise, your getting just as expensive as any other option out there honestly. The most difficult in your list to install is cams, I find it pretty insane a header install costs that much more than actually going into the motor.

Nitrous is fun, depending on the kit make sure it has a good controller. By the time you option a kit out with things like a bottle heater, remote opener, pressure gauge, etc, your realistically looking at around $1200-1400.

I think these are the best kits on the market:

http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/prod...&cat=93&page=1
http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/prod...age=1&featured

Add around 150 for a progressive controller and about the same for a remote opener. Then of course you need switches and a place to put your gauge..... Point is, it's all expensive, pick your poison!

I got my LTs and H-pipe installed for under $400. They are JBAs, and the guy who did the install said they fit beautifully.

dude dont let people on here scare you away from longtubes. do your research at local shops, even maybe a ford dealership most of those guys do side work for cash a lot cheaper than the dealer pricing.

Steeda did my installs here and labor was very reasonable IMO...

Kooks LT's & H-Pipe $ 550.00

FRPP HotRod Cams $ 450.00

I did the kooks with car on jackstands. looking back it really wasn't that bad, just a little time consuming, but well worth it over paying someone to do it. Fitment was excellent with the kooks. I didn't even have to remove my g-trac brace to get them in there.

Thats about what I was quoted/ paid.

I did the cams first and made very little extra power. I'm currently saving up for Kooks longtubes. The guy who did my car did his wifes car the same way as me except he had an o/r mid pipe and I'm factory. He then put the kooks on and made 35 more rwhp...

So if that works for me, then it's a mod that goes hand in hand. You can do either by itself, but they really shine when you put them together

Ya, there's a couple of guys around here that decided to install just the HotRods and only got 5-10 RWHP. I was happy with the 30 I got..!! :)

I don't know why so many shops charge that much for LT installs. I live in Houston and the highest I was quoted was 650 and lowest is 200.... I went with the 200 of course and don't think they didn't know what their doing. They did the whole job in 3 hours and that's because they had to wait another hour for me to come back with the 02 extsneions

Do the longtubes yourself and save urself the install! We did mine last weekend and I'm glad I did! Install is a PITA tho haha

Where in Houston did it for 200?

Quarter Mile Solutions
10055 Belknap #215
Sugarland Tx.,77478

Speak to Les, he is the owner. I am about to have them do my gears for 150 labor also.

The Phone # is 281-498-2151

Save up more and get both! They are beneficial to each other, if you have to do one first, do the long tubes first. Cams will not gain much on a car running the stock manifolds.

HMMMM, cams or longtubes?

In my opinion, longtubes may actually provide better gains than just the cams. But cams put a HUGE smile on my face every time I drive my car. I will gladly trade 75RWHP for the fun factor of the car. Just the way it shakes the entire car at idle is simply awesome.

Cams were installed for 250, which included spark plug change and powdercoating my valvecovers. Which is an awesome price. Quote for installing long tubes is 275

First bit of audio was from a previous video. Idle was set to 620. the latte, the idle was set at 750
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5IjYEDiAq8





Now, I know my car seems very low for RWHP (it has always been). The dyno sheet provided below was with highflow cats, delete plates, and FRPP Hotrods installed. I have always thought that my dyno reads low, as another mustang before me with Stage II Comp VSR's, full JBA O/R exhaust, intake/tune made only 323RWHP. My tuner is betting that if I add longtubes, I'll make an extra 12 at max. He states that the stock cats are what really holds you back, once you dump those, gains from LT's have usually been very minimal. Sure, it might be the fact his dyno reads low, or the fact that my car has always been low on power, I only put down 258RWHP stock. But I just don't care, I am happy with my traps speeds of just about 109

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...er1954/Cam.jpg


Some say its the tune, I gave Dyno Joe a call. He told me it was my tuner being incapable of tuning it. Saying he tunes way too lean, and way too much timing. He told me that even with a basic email he could get me to 330RWHP EASY. Well take a look below, I showed him that chart in 2 emails. guess what, he said too bad and refused refund. I also have an email tune from BAMA which made even less than DynoJoe.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y13...1954/Kevin.jpg

In the end, I DONT care if i lost 15RWHP by installing the cams. They make me happy, and thats all that matters (sorry for long post)

^^^^^^^^^^^^I like what that guy said! Be happy with what you got... rung what ya brung!

Wow that's pretty lame. He goes off on other tuners like he's somehow the best there is and knows wtf he's doing, then can't tune it any better and basically gives you the finger.

Boo to DynoJoe!

I asked for a refund because I made no where near his power claims. He said, He stated, that it is impossibly for an email tune to beat a custom tune. He said I must have bad gas, or a bad this/that. After the run around, he said he could add a few degrees of timing and lean it out a bit.

But in the end, it wouldnt have really been any better than my tuners tune.

I was wondering the same thing, so i called Brenspeed and was quoted $2600 for everything. That is purchase of Comp Cams NSR Stage 2, Pypes LT headers with catted H pipe, 2 new cam phaser bolts, and installation of both headers and cams, as well as a custom tune. From what i can tell and have researched the Pypes headers are almost identical in design to the Kooks for A LOT less....
The only thing that is stopping me is for that much money i could make a hell of a dent into the purchase and installation of a supercharger.....