Long tube headers with s/c
02-13-2010, 01:13 AM
#41
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 2,211
again lets keep in mind magazines SELL headers through advertisements, my brother is a writer for various magazines and new papers, he has gotten in deep do do calling it like it is at times, advertisers have threatened to pull their money, believe me understand the powers that be. if the results of the tests show nothing, for one thing there is not much to write about and 2 the advertisers will get pissed. not saying its fake,just saying that if you are looking to find gains, there are things you can do to show more gains
ever seen that show "Trucks" on Spike TV? They made a 2005 F-150 Roush Clone one day. During the show, they failed to tell anybody about how they HEAT SOAKED the motor before the dyno and ran it with 20" rims/oversized tires...all so they could get a RWHP of <200 HP.
even went so far as to say the truck couldn't even do a brakestand...what a load of crap
then they did a bunch of misc bolt-ons. those + tuning got them +30 RWHP I think...impressive for the auto noob. But I was pissed at the blatent B.S. they were spouting
02-13-2010, 10:32 AM
#42
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: utah
Posts: 305
here is a link to the kenne bell stuff
http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/fo...gtTechTips.pdf
scroll down to exhaust and headers, reading this stuff again, infact I have never read such detailed technical info about our cars than what is posted there, if you are being honest the only conclusion you can draw is these guys MIGHT know what they are talking about.
on edit another read on exhaust
http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/fo...aust_tests.pdf
http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/fo...gtTechTips.pdf
scroll down to exhaust and headers, reading this stuff again, infact I have never read such detailed technical info about our cars than what is posted there, if you are being honest the only conclusion you can draw is these guys MIGHT know what they are talking about.
on edit another read on exhaust
http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/fo...aust_tests.pdf
Last edited by cummins cowboy; 02-13-2010 at 10:40 AM.
02-13-2010, 11:06 AM
#43
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,397
again lets keep in mind magazines SELL headers through advertisements, my brother is a writer for various magazines and new papers, he has gotten in deep do do calling it like it is at times, advertisers have threatened to pull their money, believe me understand the powers that be. if the results of the tests show nothing, for one thing there is not much to write about and 2 the advertisers will get pissed. not saying its fake,just saying that if you are looking to find gains, there are things you can do to show more gains.
someone posted a JDM video a while back, JDM SELLS headers, in the video they say they installed headers and tuned the car, no mention if the car needed tuning before the install or if they tuned the car at all before the install, it was a kooks video I think.
so with that said, what would be kenne bell's motivation for coming out and calling bull**** on headers??? I see no motivation. they stand nothing to gain by it. I would also call the information they release seemingly detailed, why would they lie??
someone posted a JDM video a while back, JDM SELLS headers, in the video they say they installed headers and tuned the car, no mention if the car needed tuning before the install or if they tuned the car at all before the install, it was a kooks video I think.
so with that said, what would be kenne bell's motivation for coming out and calling bull**** on headers??? I see no motivation. they stand nothing to gain by it. I would also call the information they release seemingly detailed, why would they lie??
This isn't directed specifically at you, but you raise a point that always really gets under my skin. It's really easy for those outside the journalism world to sit back and point a finger at a magazine article when the outcome isn't what they think it should be. I have been a journalist for years and have had many reviews published online and in magazines of technology products. the part I don't think anyone understands about print journalism is that the people that sell ads and the people who write about and receive the products that are reviewed are so far removed from each other that the two have zero influence on each other 99.99% of the time.
Might some people fudge numbers, sure. Is it common at all, no. Reviews of any product are so subjective that what i like might suck for you and there is so much difference in performance of the same part out of the box that reviewing one widget back to back with another can give totally different results. Now vendors in many markets have been known to send ringers to publications to be reviewed that aren't 100% what the public can buy. However, that is far from common.
I am no auto journalist and I haven't installed any of these parts, but i can see someone in a colder northern state putting headers on a car and getting significantly larger HP gains than i might get here in Texas with 95% humidity and 105 degree temps in August. With most of these mags based in Cali, things will vary in other parts of the country. Again, i am not saying you can't get a writer or a pub that would fudge numbers, but i have worked in journalism and hands down across the board 100% of the time any publication i have ever worked with or known any other writers that have worked with them will take you out with a quickness if you aren't 100% truthful in what you say and write. You simply cannot say that the mags sell parts ergo they are biased. That is simply untrue.
People outside the print journalism industry have no idea how hard it is as a writer to land this sort of review position. There are maybe a handful of people in the entire world that are able to work in reviewing products and writing about them and I can tell you once you are able to get yourself to that point i have never met anyone who would risk all the hard work getting there by fudging numbers on a product that most writers don't care about in the least. Indifference is sort of a job requirement.
02-13-2010, 04:21 PM
#44
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: utah
Posts: 305
This isn't directed specifically at you, but you raise a point that always really gets under my skin. It's really easy for those outside the journalism world to sit back and point a finger at a magazine article when the outcome isn't what they think it should be. I have been a journalist for years and have had many reviews published online and in magazines of technology products. the part I don't think anyone understands about print journalism is that the people that sell ads and the people who write about and receive the products that are reviewed are so far removed from each other that the two have zero influence on each other 99.99% of the time.
Might some people fudge numbers, sure. Is it common at all, no. Reviews of any product are so subjective that what i like might suck for you and there is so much difference in performance of the same part out of the box that reviewing one widget back to back with another can give totally different results. Now vendors in many markets have been known to send ringers to publications to be reviewed that aren't 100% what the public can buy. However, that is far from common.
I am no auto journalist and I haven't installed any of these parts, but i can see someone in a colder northern state putting headers on a car and getting significantly larger HP gains than i might get here in Texas with 95% humidity and 105 degree temps in August. With most of these mags based in Cali, things will vary in other parts of the country. Again, i am not saying you can't get a writer or a pub that would fudge numbers, but i have worked in journalism and hands down across the board 100% of the time any publication i have ever worked with or known any other writers that have worked with them will take you out with a quickness if you aren't 100% truthful in what you say and write. You simply cannot say that the mags sell parts ergo they are biased. That is simply untrue.
People outside the print journalism industry have no idea how hard it is as a writer to land this sort of review position. There are maybe a handful of people in the entire world that are able to work in reviewing products and writing about them and I can tell you once you are able to get yourself to that point i have never met anyone who would risk all the hard work getting there by fudging numbers on a product that most writers don't care about in the least. Indifference is sort of a job requirement.
Might some people fudge numbers, sure. Is it common at all, no. Reviews of any product are so subjective that what i like might suck for you and there is so much difference in performance of the same part out of the box that reviewing one widget back to back with another can give totally different results. Now vendors in many markets have been known to send ringers to publications to be reviewed that aren't 100% what the public can buy. However, that is far from common.
I am no auto journalist and I haven't installed any of these parts, but i can see someone in a colder northern state putting headers on a car and getting significantly larger HP gains than i might get here in Texas with 95% humidity and 105 degree temps in August. With most of these mags based in Cali, things will vary in other parts of the country. Again, i am not saying you can't get a writer or a pub that would fudge numbers, but i have worked in journalism and hands down across the board 100% of the time any publication i have ever worked with or known any other writers that have worked with them will take you out with a quickness if you aren't 100% truthful in what you say and write. You simply cannot say that the mags sell parts ergo they are biased. That is simply untrue.
People outside the print journalism industry have no idea how hard it is as a writer to land this sort of review position. There are maybe a handful of people in the entire world that are able to work in reviewing products and writing about them and I can tell you once you are able to get yourself to that point i have never met anyone who would risk all the hard work getting there by fudging numbers on a product that most writers don't care about in the least. Indifference is sort of a job requirement.
be careful about believing everything you read, so who do you trust, kenne bell, who does not sell headers and has nothing to gain one way or the other, or some magazine that has a kooks headers ad in it?? and them writing a review on kooks headers. I believe kenne bell first.
02-13-2010, 04:32 PM
#45
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 1,679
Just to throw another datapoint out there...
I have an Edelbrock E-Force with the 3.5" pulley. This setup with stock exhaust was expected to make 450rwhp/425rwtq.
I put this kit on my car which already had Bassani LT's, Bassani catted X, and Bassani Race muffers.
The car made 450rwhp/450rwtq. So I picked up nothing in peak rwhp (don't know if I picked up rwhp in lower and mid rpm bands or not). But I clearly picked up 25rwtq.
I also saw no change in expected boost with these headers. Some say headers make you lose boost. Heck JDM said that. But my headers are the smaller of the two primary sizes that Bassani makes.
Before having a supercharger, when I put the headers on I didn't have it dyno'd. But it did feel torquier after the headers were put on.
I have an Edelbrock E-Force with the 3.5" pulley. This setup with stock exhaust was expected to make 450rwhp/425rwtq.
I put this kit on my car which already had Bassani LT's, Bassani catted X, and Bassani Race muffers.
The car made 450rwhp/450rwtq. So I picked up nothing in peak rwhp (don't know if I picked up rwhp in lower and mid rpm bands or not). But I clearly picked up 25rwtq.
I also saw no change in expected boost with these headers. Some say headers make you lose boost. Heck JDM said that. But my headers are the smaller of the two primary sizes that Bassani makes.
Before having a supercharger, when I put the headers on I didn't have it dyno'd. But it did feel torquier after the headers were put on.
02-14-2010, 12:07 AM
#46
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 6,130
here is a link to the kenne bell stuff
http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/fo...gtTechTips.pdf
scroll down to exhaust and headers, reading this stuff again, infact I have never read such detailed technical info about our cars than what is posted there, if you are being honest the only conclusion you can draw is these guys MIGHT know what they are talking about.
on edit another read on exhaust
http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/fo...aust_tests.pdf
http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/fo...gtTechTips.pdf
scroll down to exhaust and headers, reading this stuff again, infact I have never read such detailed technical info about our cars than what is posted there, if you are being honest the only conclusion you can draw is these guys MIGHT know what they are talking about.
on edit another read on exhaust
http://www.kennebell.net/techinfo/fo...aust_tests.pdf
then they mention headers, doesnt say whether its LT's or shorties, but i'm guessing they are testing shorties otherwise they would've said LT's, and i can agree with the shorties making little or no gains.
it is common to have the headers and o/r midpipe lower boost and pick up some hp. whenever you have that, you have a more efficient engine, and it also sounds a lot better. so i think it is a worthwhile mod, even if it does cost $1000+ especially on a boosted engine.
02-14-2010, 09:58 PM
#47
Retired Mod
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 7,658
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