My experience with 3 tunes & a Stage II Kenne Bell
10-07-2011, 12:34 AM
#1
My experience with 3 tunes & a Stage II Kenne Bell
Hi All,
I wanted to share my experience over the last couple of months trying to get my car running right. Over $1000 later too.
The Stage II 130mm Single blade throttle body is not a favorite of any tuner I have spoken to. Kenne Bell doesn't release their tunes, so if you put on Long Tubes, you are on your own.
I have 3 tunes. All three are different. Spark, fuel, MAF transfer, drive by wire, etc. It amazes me how 3 different tuners have 3 different visions for the same Kenne Bell setup.
I have short term fuel trim at 6000 rpms at .779, .79 and .819. Spark 17.5, 18.5, 20.
The third/leanest tune runs the best overall. I am going to dyno each tune, but the first tune pulled 471 rwhp at 6400rpms on a Dynotune. But it is not fun to drive. Closed loop blows. The second tunes WOT doesn't feel right, ver y choppy.
So now I ordered a Ford Racing Throttle Body so I can get all OEM moving parts in the TB. It seems the drive by wire is easier to configure for the Ford Racing TB.
I am hoping I can get this thing done over the weekend. Wideband O2 sensor is going in on Tuesday.
Just curious if anyone has had these issues getting the Stage II kit tuned to have overall driveabilty, not just the highest RWHP.
I wanted to share my experience over the last couple of months trying to get my car running right. Over $1000 later too.
The Stage II 130mm Single blade throttle body is not a favorite of any tuner I have spoken to. Kenne Bell doesn't release their tunes, so if you put on Long Tubes, you are on your own.
I have 3 tunes. All three are different. Spark, fuel, MAF transfer, drive by wire, etc. It amazes me how 3 different tuners have 3 different visions for the same Kenne Bell setup.
I have short term fuel trim at 6000 rpms at .779, .79 and .819. Spark 17.5, 18.5, 20.
The third/leanest tune runs the best overall. I am going to dyno each tune, but the first tune pulled 471 rwhp at 6400rpms on a Dynotune. But it is not fun to drive. Closed loop blows. The second tunes WOT doesn't feel right, ver y choppy.
So now I ordered a Ford Racing Throttle Body so I can get all OEM moving parts in the TB. It seems the drive by wire is easier to configure for the Ford Racing TB.
I am hoping I can get this thing done over the weekend. Wideband O2 sensor is going in on Tuesday.
Just curious if anyone has had these issues getting the Stage II kit tuned to have overall driveabilty, not just the highest RWHP.
10-07-2011, 11:01 AM
#4
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 4,552
The problem has nothing to do with the throttle body. It has everything to do with the tuners inability tune. It took 30 minutes to get drivability perfect on my car and three dyno runs to get my first two tunes and two or three for the race.
10 psi street ~475
15 psi street ~540rwhp forget the torque 11.39 @123
15 psi race (100 octane) ~565 rwhp 560 rwtq 11.05 @ 129.4
Find a tuner that has done several other Kenne Belles or has a long standing reputation for tuning S197s.
10 psi street ~475
15 psi street ~540rwhp forget the torque 11.39 @123
15 psi race (100 octane) ~565 rwhp 560 rwtq 11.05 @ 129.4
Find a tuner that has done several other Kenne Belles or has a long standing reputation for tuning S197s.
10-07-2011, 11:37 PM
#5
I used the tuner Kenne Bell recommended. So throw using a "reputation" out the window. I don't see either one giving me back $450...
I just put on the FRPP throttle body twin 62mm with a tune from the last tuner I used. The car feels great. no flat spots, responsive.
If the tuner doesn't understand the drive by wire mapping he can't tune your car with a Stage II or FRPP throttle body.
So in the end it worked out, but it should have been right from the beginning using 2 Kenne Bell dealers that only do mustangs,2005 and up as their "Specialty".
I just put on the FRPP throttle body twin 62mm with a tune from the last tuner I used. The car feels great. no flat spots, responsive.
If the tuner doesn't understand the drive by wire mapping he can't tune your car with a Stage II or FRPP throttle body.
So in the end it worked out, but it should have been right from the beginning using 2 Kenne Bell dealers that only do mustangs,2005 and up as their "Specialty".
The problem has nothing to do with the throttle body. It has everything to do with the tuners inability tune. It took 30 minutes to get drivability perfect on my car and three dyno runs to get my first two tunes and two or three for the race.
10 psi street ~475
15 psi street ~540rwhp forget the torque 11.39 @123
15 psi race (100 octane) ~565 rwhp 560 rwtq 11.05 @ 129.4
Find a tuner that has done several other Kenne Belles or has a long standing reputation for tuning S197s.
10 psi street ~475
15 psi street ~540rwhp forget the torque 11.39 @123
15 psi race (100 octane) ~565 rwhp 560 rwtq 11.05 @ 129.4
Find a tuner that has done several other Kenne Belles or has a long standing reputation for tuning S197s.
10-10-2011, 11:41 AM
#6
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Redding, CA
Posts: 4,552
Regardless of your expereince it is all about the tuner. If they could not figure it out with the big monoblade on there than there, was something mechanically wrong with it, which I doubt, but it is possible.
KB has their own tuners, they do not farm out much of their stuff, so they say. They know who is good and they know who is bad. A good tuner would not let you drive your car away or deliver a car without it being perfect and/or offering you a solution to what they think the problem is. If a tuner can't make my car drive like stock under part throttle, idle and daily driving, I won't be paying them any money.
The guy who tunes my car is internationally known and is flown all over the world to tune all types of vehicles. He likes the Mustangs the most, but tunes whatever makes him money.
KB has their own tuners, they do not farm out much of their stuff, so they say. They know who is good and they know who is bad. A good tuner would not let you drive your car away or deliver a car without it being perfect and/or offering you a solution to what they think the problem is. If a tuner can't make my car drive like stock under part throttle, idle and daily driving, I won't be paying them any money.
The guy who tunes my car is internationally known and is flown all over the world to tune all types of vehicles. He likes the Mustangs the most, but tunes whatever makes him money.
10-11-2011, 12:58 AM
#8
5th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 2,388
Indeed the 130mm monoblade TB adds a little more complexity, but as stated, it is indeed up to the tuner to be able to work it out. There are some 'tricks' that my tuner has used to set up the tune properly.
I'm using long tubes as well as mildly-agressive blower cams. The throttle response is very reasonable and not overly touchy, but there can be a little cam surge at lower rpms in high gear going around 45 with a light throttle, otherwise no issues.
And if you have an automatic, you can really run into failsafe issues under certain conditions, such as power-braking or taking off light-throttle going up an incline. Again, all tune-solvable.
But you gotta admit, that 130mm monoblade looks nice!
I'm using long tubes as well as mildly-agressive blower cams. The throttle response is very reasonable and not overly touchy, but there can be a little cam surge at lower rpms in high gear going around 45 with a light throttle, otherwise no issues.
And if you have an automatic, you can really run into failsafe issues under certain conditions, such as power-braking or taking off light-throttle going up an incline. Again, all tune-solvable.
But you gotta admit, that 130mm monoblade looks nice!
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