Smuckers

I'll preface this entire PSA/complaint post that both parties dropped the ball, though the other isn't holding up their claims. A very long story is below, so here's to everyone enjoying a good book.

Having a roadblock with a specific driveshaft maker who will not stand behind their warranty (details abound).

So, back in late October 2016 I bought an aluminum driveshaft off a vendor of "muscular American." Cool. It arrives, and life takes a solid turn into not being around to install the darn thing. Fast forward to April of 2017, and I get the thing installed. I don't get to drive my car, though (not around).

I eventually get to drive it a grand total of 7 times last year, for a few hundred miles, with this new driveshaft. All the while it's making a "tinking" sound whenever taking off from a stop. No hard launches, nothing beyond a couple full throttle blast from a bone stock 2010 GT 4.6L (whoopee) on a freeway onramp. There was a vibration. I kept forgetting about it until September of 2017 (almost out of the 1 year warranty).

So, I send an email, since where I worked had no cell signal, and I had no time to talk due to workload. I got a single response asking the CV Joint distance. I respond with full details (about distance, pinion angle, suspension setup, and had previously mentioned power levels and driving speeds/style). No response came back.

Thanks to my work (again), I had no time to follow up. I finally call and talk to someone (we'll call them Person B), explain the situation, and try to get an RMA. I'm told that it would be covered under warranty, despite the shaft being a couple weeks past warranty (early November 2017 is when I made the call). I'm told (in writing) that there is no limit to the RMA. I had driven the car once between the first email sent, and then calling: roughly two months. Once I got the RMA approved, the car was parked.

Thanks to work (again), I have no time to get the thing out of the car. April of this year (2018) I get some time, and get the shaft out, putting the stock one back in. I've driven the car twice this year. I get the driveshaft sent out, send an email confirming the tracking information. It was sent out May 10, 2018.

The shaft gets delivered; a week later I get a call from the manufacturer; they received it. I'm glad they're on top of their inventory. I was told that it would be diagnosed before any repairs made. That didn't happen.

I received a call yesterday that it was done, and ready to be charged a little under $250 for replacing a bad CV joint. Hmmm, that's weird. I was told it was under warranty from two people (the email person, and person B). I talk to them again today, and that stands, as they claim it's out of warranty. I sent the entire, original email chain; apparently doesn't matter.

The short of it: the shaft was bad out of the box. The company dragged their feet on emails (IE: doesn't respond when requesting an RMA), and I unfortunately dragged my feet on getting the thing shipped. No chance to comp the cost of the shaft, and they keep it, no discount, no nothing. Pretty much "here, take my member, and have a nice day."

I work in the IT field, financial sector. This type of response, especially if I'd been the one to make the mistake of not replying to an email for a part return, would mean my job (seen people let go for such things before, so this is no exaggeration). A $750 driveshaft is not chump change to me. Driving it somewhere between 500 and 650 vibration and tinking riddled miles makes me think it was defective as new.

So, I'll be looking into a small claim against them, and suggest that if anyone runs into an issue, just don't. I'm not name-dropping, though I'd like to, but there are only two driveshaft makers with CV joints for the S197 Mustang, and only one of those sells at an online "muscular American" site. Not happy at this kind of extortion and absolute failure on customer service. Yes, I freely admit my end wasn't perfect, but when a company drops the ball, will not admit it, and then tries to screw me in the process; yeah, I'm going to fight that, and let everyone know to avoid them.


continued......



I decided to include email and some call history about this.



From: Driveshaft "Customer Support" [mailto:sales@*****shaft****.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2017 4:59 PM
To: driveshafts <driveshafts@*****shaft****.com>
Subject: message from: Me, email@email.com from Contact us page



message from contact us page
Name: My Name
Email:myemail@email.com

Message:
Hello. I bought a 1 piece aluminum driveshaft for a 2010 Mustang GT in October of 2016, from American Muscle. The install went fine, and everything seems in order, except for a "ting" sound when taking off initially, or when unloading the drivetrain. It's a single ting, not rhythmic, cyclic, or dependent on engine RPM. The car sits on Steeda sport springs, which lower the rear 1.25", and it has an adjustable upper control arm, which is currently set to align the pinion angle more than the stock arm did with lowering. I know the CV joint at the rear should prevent the need. The "ting" sounds almost exactly like an exhaust pipe cooling off, though I can make it happen at will. I have not yet reinspected the drive shaft to see if there is a crack, but the bolts are still torqued properly the last I checkes (about 1 month ago). The car has driven about 600 miles (90% highway) since the install with some spirit here and there.The engine is completely stock. Tires are Nitto NT05 in 295/35/R18 sizing, and the stock size. No autocrossing or drag racing has been done; only heavy throttle onramp runs, so no abuse. My main question is, could it be a cracked driveshaft? Could it be a U or CV joint? The rest of the suspension is tight and trouble free. The noise has been present since day one after install, and was the only part changed at the time. If it is the driveshaft, I'm assuming the warranty would still apply due to the time frame. I can provide a proof of purchase email American Muscle sent to me if needed. Thank you for your time, My Name.



----------------------------------1st reply---------------------------------------------------

from: Person A <persona@*****shaft****.com>
to: myemail@email.com
date: Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 9:32 AM

Hi My Name,

What does your CV gap measure at?



Thank You,

Person A


-----------------------------------------My 2nd email-----------------------------------------

from: My Name <myemail@email.com>
to: Person A <persona@*****shaft****.com>
date: Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 9:56 AM

Hi Person A,

Thanks for the fast reply. The CV Joint gap (measured between the end of the driveshaft and the CV joint flange) measures at 3.52", where the instructions I have show it should be within 3.25 and 3.75"

I forgot to mention that the control arms use a combination of polyurethane and Roto-joints, which are a delrin-lined spherical bearing, and are adjustable for play (they are properly adjusted for that). The only stock bushing left is the differential bushing, which is not cracked or torn. I had planned on eventually tracking the car, hence the replacement parts, but that plan has not yet happened.

Thanks again,

My Name




--------------------------------NO REPLY EVER CAME----------------------------I CALLED ON 11/6/17-----------------------------SENT A FOLLOWUP (3rd) EMAIL------------------

from: My Name <myemail@email.com>
to: Person A <persona@*****shaft****.com>
date: Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 10:09 AM

Hi Person A,

I hadn't received any reply in a long time on this, and have been busy, but am providing an update. At this point, I believe the driveshaft has a balance issue, as I had replaced the final stock bushing with a urethane piece, and did a before/after between the two bushings, with some actual road course time to compare the two. The tinking sound still exists on takeoff. The CV joint is still at the same nominal (as the car sits level) 3.52" measurement. What I noticed with the original bushing in place was a bad vibration starting around 65 and increasing with higher speeds. The urethane bushing exhibited the same shake. By 120 MPH, the car felt unsafe with the amount of shake it had. The rear end bearings were checked and are fine. I did not have this kind of vibration with the stock shaft, even though it had a very sloppy rear CV joint that had around 6 degrees of free rotation internally.

I know phasing was mentioned in other driveshafts, but given that this shaft has a CV joint in the rear, and not a U-joint, how would phasing be an issue? I have not yet tried turning it 90 or 180 degrees. If that doesn't happen, I have to return to the stock 2 piece unit, as it had noticeably less vibration at speed. I would cite suspension compliance if I weren't already using improved suspension bushings. At this point I have about 650 miles on the driveshaft since my initial email. I know it's right around the 1 year warranty period, but hope that, because I had already contact The Driveshaft Shop about this in September, that it would help the situation.

I don't know if I'll be receiving any reply to this email, and will probably be calling today, Nov. 6, to possibly talk to someone and discuss.

Thanks for your time,

My Name

----------------------------------------2nd response--------------------------------------------------------

from: Person A <persona@*****shaft****.com>
to: My Name <myemail@email.com>
date: Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 5:08 PM

Hi My Name,

I apologize, I see over 100 emails a day and one can slip through the cracks. With that many poly bushings, a large part of your vibration could be resonance transfer and harmonic excitement. If you are having a pinging on takeoff, that would point to the CV possibly. I would be glad to write up an RMA to send in the shaft and have a diagnosis done and a warranty repair.



Thank You,

Person A

---------------------------------------My 4th email--------------------------------------------------------

from: My Name <myemail@email.com>
to: Person A <persona@*****shaft****.com>
date: Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 6:34 PM

Hi Person A

I understand about the email volume. My day job is similar in that regard.

I didn't get the vibrations with the stock driveshaft, and with the differential bushing being replaced, trace oneswere gone. The vibration itself starts around 65 repeatedly, and increases. By 120, the whole car was shaking badly. It sounded like a large subwoofer was in the car. Every previous experience with harmonics I've had they come and go, so I'm thinking it may be a balance, or CV joint issue.

I ended up calling yesterday and spoke with Mike about it. He mentioned thinking it's the driveshaft and set up an RMA, so we're good there.

One question for you: is the time limit on the RMA 30 days? I'm used to that window when working with computer equipment. If it's less that's OK, I just ask due to being short on time.

Thanks for your reply, and have a good evening,

My Name


---------------------------------------------3rd response-------------------------------------------------

from: Person A <persona@*****shaft****.com>
to: My Name <myemail@email.com>
date: Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 9:44 AM

Hi My Name,

I believe it could be a mix of the CV joint and harmonic excitement. The factory shaft is isolated with a coupler and will help with that transfer. There is no time limit on the RMA so you can send the shaft at your convienience. Let me know if I can assist further!



Thank You,

Person A

---------------------------------------My 5th email------------------------------------------------------

from: My Name <myemail@email.com>
to: Person A <persona@*****shaft****.com>
date: Wed, May 9, 2018 at 5:59 PM

Hi Person A,

I know your last email was sent a while ago. I was able to get the driveshaft out shortly after we talked, and fell onto some issues in getting it shipped. In taking it out, one of the bolts broke (possibly the cause of the "tinking" sound I'd heard, or vibrations, not sure). The rest of the bolts, along with the companion flange, are included. I was able to send the driveshaft out today, via UPS/USPS I believe. Hopefully it can still be balanced and resolved. Also, do you happen to have the spec on the bolts used, as I'd obviously need to get at least another one?

The tracking number is: 9405510200793748225472.

Apologies again, and thanks as well,

My Name


-----------------------------------------------------4th response---------------------------------------

from: Person A <persona@*****shaft****.com>
to: My Name <myemail@email.com>
date: Thu, May 10, 2018 at 10:51 AM

HI My Name,

I will be on the look out for this and will include new hardware with it.



Thank You,

Person A




-----------------In another email with Person B (after having spoken with them on the phone, and getting an "official" RMA) this is the checklist sent.--------------

from: B@*****shaft****.com <B@*****shaft****.com>
to: myemail@email.com
date: Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 3:26 PM

Here is a check list for typical axle or driveshaft harmonic vibrations starting at the rear end of the car. Some of it may not be applicable to your specific make/ model:

-uneven tire wear
-wheel runout
-position, quantity of wheel weights
-brake rotor runout/ warp
-worn bushings
-coil spring perches
-adjustable coilovers
-hardened bushings (harder poly material reflects energy rather than absorbing it)
-torque of suspension hardware
-torque of axle hardware
-torque of any other hardware loosened during installation
-subframe mounts
-axle CV free play
-pinion support
-differential fluid
-condition of crown & pinion teeth
-alignment of differential with transmission
-transmission/ transfer case tail shaft
-engine/ transmission mounts

We usually find that third wave harmonics are caused by something using the driveshaft as an amplifier but if the position of the weights on the replacement shaft didn't match the position of the weights on the old shaft, the shaft could be out of phase. In some cases the shaft can be installed back-to-front and in others the shaft can be rotated 30, 60, 90 or 180 degrees around its longitudinal axis to position the balance weights so they cancel out that harmonic. In others, the shaft can be installed back-to-front which has the same effect.

Regards,

Person B




*Note* I found this odd, considering they'd issued an RMA at this point.

Person A, after admitting the mistake of missing an email offered to have this RMA'd and repaired under warranty, despite the previous emails stating it had been purchased in October of the previous year (1 year and 13 days, specifically).

Person B I spoke with on the phone repeatedly, and they had previously also mentioned it being repaired in warranty despite the time frame, due to their error. Of course, grand promises made verbally that they are refusing to honor.

May 21, I receive a call from Person B stating the shaft was received (it had been received by them on May 14th). Literally a week later. I was going to start a search for the thing, as I'd been waiting. I called back and left a voicemail. They called me again on May 23.

June 18 - I get a call from Person B that the shaft is ready, and that I owe $234+ (a more specific figure). I ask why, and they say it's not under warranty, and that the CV joint needed to be repaired.I sent emails to them shortly after the talk.

----------------------------------Some emails with them from the past couple of days.-------------------------------------


from: My Name <myemail@email.com>
to: B@*****shaft****.com
date: Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:28 PM

Hi Person B,

This is the total email chain regarding the driveshaft issues. Hopefully this sheds some light on things. I'll be sending the proof of purchase email shortly.

-----------------------------The proof of purchase email was sent----------------------

from: B@*****shaft****.com <B@*****shaft****.com>
to: E N <clunknugget@gmail.com>
date: Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 4:05 PM

Thanks My name. Unfortunately the driveshaft is too far outside the warranty window for us to process the claim. However I want you to have this driveshaft back so give me a call with your payment info and we will get it on the UPS truck as soon as possible. The total including the shipping back to you is $234.23.

Best,


Person B

-----------------------------------7th email from me---------------------------------------------------

from: My Name <myemail@email.com>
to: B@*****shaft****.com
date: Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 4:12 PM


That's not good news, Person B, since I had tried to get the driveshaft returned for an issue within the time limit, and never got any contact back from the driveshaft shop. Unfortunately, my job prevents me from having a lot of free time, and it fell on the back burner.

I'm deeply bothered that your company is unwilling to stand behind something that was obviously defective out of the box, especially after the email string shows the person is willing to process under warranty (Person A specifically mentioned this, and that there is no time limit to the RMA).

I would prefer to talk in person, but I don't have your specific extension in your email signature. I will freely admit that neither end handled this well. No response back from my first attempt at getting an RMA within the warranty period, and then being unable (by not being physically in the area) to remove the driveshaft and send it out faster.

I had also received a call after the driveshaft had been delivered for nearly a week, and was also told that it would be diagnosed prior to repair. At no time was I *ever* told that this was not warranty covered. If you can provide your extension, I'll call shortly.

Thanks for your time,

My Name





I called shortly after, stayed on the line for a bit, waiting for them to get Person B (not long, about ten minutes). Then came the stonewalling that they "understand," and "have their policies." Of course, promise the world, deliver nothing when it comes to in writing, except that someone did. I asked to speak to someone higher up, and explain the situation. That came with a very prompt stonewalling and Person B obviously trying to end the conversation. I asked for the owner (I believe his name is Frank), at which point it became a "he's not here, but I can take a message."

That's about as good as it gets. At this point I'd even asked for the comping of half the value of the shaft, just so I can take my money elsewhere. A resounding refusal multiple times. I really wish I'd recorded the conversation.


Phew, hope everyone is still awake after that super interesting thread.


I suggest avoidance of this specific brand, and I'll update as things change.

Derf00

That's a tough call but, if they agreed to cover it under warranty and did not stipulate by when it needed to be returned after issuance of the RMA to be honored. That's on them, regardless of how long outside the warranty it was before they received it back. Granted, some level of reasonableness should be considered but, push comes to shove, they offered it without a date cap so they left it open to interpretation. Small claims court would see it that way.

08'MustangDude

RMAs expire, but they need to provide that date. I deal with car part returns a lot,
and I am told I have 15 or 30 days for post marking, on the RMA provided...

As far as warranty, as long as you initiated the process before the warranty expired,
they have to honor it. Why? Because you can have, say, a week left, so you
contact them about the warranty, and they drag it out so the warranty expires
before you get an approval or RMA. This is what they do... They ignore you
for a few days, then correspond a few more days with solutions to drag it out, then
more ignoring, and voila, the warranty is up. Nope, if you contacted them about
the failure WITHIN the warranty period, they have to honor it.

outceltj

****ty deal man. Good luck with your case. Im not sure I would take the time to go to court for something like this b/c a few hundred bucks lost now would cost me more in lost time dealing with court

Smuckers

UPDATE:

So I sent one last email the evening of 6/19, compiling all previous emails in it, and sent to both Person A and B.

I had spots highlighted, and was asking specific questions about why they didn't communicate with me, took a week to confirm delivery of the shaft, if they recorded their calls so they could listen to what was said.

Person A sent an email yesterday morning, saying this:

from: Person A <persona@*****shaft****.com>
to: My Name <myemail@email.com>
cc: Person B <B@*****shaft****.com>
date: Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:22 AM

HI My name,

I apologize for the massive amount of confusion regarding this. The RMA that this was based off was not written by myself so it did not have any of the information about your initial contact with me in September regarding your warranty. There was a talk of warranty when it came in which is why the work was done without contacting you. The driveshaft has been completely serviced and is ready for reinstall. I apologize for the mix up and I will have this taken care of immediately and shipped this afternoon.

Thank You,


Person A



--------------------------------------------------------------------

Later yesterday afternoon, I received a UPS tracking number, with the weight I was expecting. Looks like they sent it back. I'm glad Person A stepped up, and sent them a big thank you email. If they'd given me a time limit on the RMA, which I totally expected (very normal in the IT world for 10-30 day limit). Had that been said, I would've cursed my luck and moved on. They never argued that with me, though. It was purely the RMA creation date vs. purchase date.

This is hopefully resolved. I'll update if they sent a bunch of bricks or something random. Doubtful that I'll run the shaft, though this is at least a win.