2011 Mustang GT DYNO'D by Motortrend (435hp/404tq) VID INSIDE!
05-02-2010, 06:26 PM
#21
Deputy CatDog - To Purr'tect and Explode
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NM
Posts: 1,900
I NEVER made a statement regarding the single stop distance from 60 for either of these cars.
What I said is that if the Camaro has Brembos, I want to compare it with the Mustang that has Brembos.
But if I WAS comparing, it sure wouldn't end at the nearly-useless single cold brakes 60-0 comparison.
Lastly, perhaps reading someone else's post isn't your strong point? I already said I preferred the Mustang over the Camaro. Just out of curiosity, what exactly about "I PREFER THE MUSTANG" makes me a "Chevy Fanboy"?
Based upon your posting, I'll guess it's because I don't say cheaper is worse than more expensive or slower is better than faster if it happens to mean that on SOME point of comparison, a Mustang's specs/performance don't better the Camaro's?
What I said is that if the Camaro has Brembos, I want to compare it with the Mustang that has Brembos.
But if I WAS comparing, it sure wouldn't end at the nearly-useless single cold brakes 60-0 comparison.
Lastly, perhaps reading someone else's post isn't your strong point? I already said I preferred the Mustang over the Camaro. Just out of curiosity, what exactly about "I PREFER THE MUSTANG" makes me a "Chevy Fanboy"?
Based upon your posting, I'll guess it's because I don't say cheaper is worse than more expensive or slower is better than faster if it happens to mean that on SOME point of comparison, a Mustang's specs/performance don't better the Camaro's?
3. Even WITH 3.73, Mustang barely hangs with Camaro; take it off and no comparison.
4. I don't think pricing cars with EQUAL equipment is biased at all. Not camaro's fault that standard Stang brakes are inferior - why give stang a plus in comparison for that?
^^^Thats my reasoning behind calling you a fanboy. I don't care if you prefer the BMW, the Chevy or the Mustang.
Right there, you said the Mustang barely hangs with the Camaro with 3.73 gears. Which is complete bull ****. Stock for Stock the Mustang and Camaro are neck and neck...a pure drivers race. Then you went on to say the Mustang's brakes are inferior, even though I just proved you wrong from the Edmunds article.
Of course the Mustang's performance won't always outdo the Camaro's in every category, I'm trying to help you understand the categories where the Mustang wins.
05-02-2010, 06:27 PM
#22
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: OH
Posts: 46
Funny. Sad for you, but funny.
You see, I DO like Bimmers. They're fast, nice looking, handle and stop great, have comfortable, high quality interiors, hold their value and the company values their customers and treats them well.
But a "Fanboy" is someone who likes their chosen make to the extent that they'll make up false facts or deny shortcomings to protect their fragile psyche's fantasy of perfection for the object of their affection. Another common trait of the Fanboy is attacking anyone who doesn't share their delusional attachment to that same object.
Like the folks here who post stupidity such as "Camaro costs $10k more than Mustang". Or the folks who call someone "Fanboy" for liking another make along with their chosen one. Like you.
You see, I've owned, and still like, all three makes in the discussion. I wish I was wealthy enough to buy them all. Unfortunately that's not the case, so I have to choose. If the delivery and ownership experiences were the same, I'd likely choose Mustang 1st. I think that overall, it's the best package/price of the three. It's the delivery and dealer experience that put the Bimmer at the top. If you want to know details of what's so different/good about it, ask.
You see, I DO like Bimmers. They're fast, nice looking, handle and stop great, have comfortable, high quality interiors, hold their value and the company values their customers and treats them well.
But a "Fanboy" is someone who likes their chosen make to the extent that they'll make up false facts or deny shortcomings to protect their fragile psyche's fantasy of perfection for the object of their affection. Another common trait of the Fanboy is attacking anyone who doesn't share their delusional attachment to that same object.
Like the folks here who post stupidity such as "Camaro costs $10k more than Mustang". Or the folks who call someone "Fanboy" for liking another make along with their chosen one. Like you.
You see, I've owned, and still like, all three makes in the discussion. I wish I was wealthy enough to buy them all. Unfortunately that's not the case, so I have to choose. If the delivery and ownership experiences were the same, I'd likely choose Mustang 1st. I think that overall, it's the best package/price of the three. It's the delivery and dealer experience that put the Bimmer at the top. If you want to know details of what's so different/good about it, ask.
05-02-2010, 06:37 PM
#23
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: OH
Posts: 46
Then you went on to say the Mustang's brakes are inferior, even though I just proved you wrong from the Edmunds article.
Of course the Mustang's performance won't always outdo the Camaro's in every category, I'm trying to help you understand the categories where the Mustang wins.
I'll tell you (again) what I see between them:
- Mustang has similar straight line acceleration.
- Mustang with Brembos has as good or better braking
- Mustang, at least with "Track Pack" (is that part of Brembo package, or is it GONE for 2011? Wish I knew!), clearly out-handles Camaro.
- Mustang has nicer interior, and acceptable exterior appearance
- Camaro has more powerful engine, and more potential for modding if you're into that.
- Camaro IRS has more potential, though very mediocre factory setup limits performance.
- Prefer Camaro exterior styling. Not fond of Camaro interior styling. Dash is awful, and inferior to Mustang.
05-02-2010, 06:38 PM
#24
S197 Section Modder-ator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 13,373
Bimmers are overpriced, it's that simple.
Not saying they're junk, but the Stang has gotten a lot more efficient car with the S197 to where the Euro cars in the same category have lost their edge.
All of this has been proven on the track as well.
It is all funny and I'm not sadden by any of this.
Not saying they're junk, but the Stang has gotten a lot more efficient car with the S197 to where the Euro cars in the same category have lost their edge.
All of this has been proven on the track as well.
It is all funny and I'm not sadden by any of this.
05-02-2010, 06:48 PM
#25
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: OH
Posts: 46
Bimmers are overpriced, it's that simple.
Not saying they're junk, but the Stang has gotten a lot more efficient car with the S197 to where the Euro cars in the same category have lost their edge.
All of this has been proven on the track as well.
It is all funny and I'm not sadden by any of this.
Not saying they're junk, but the Stang has gotten a lot more efficient car with the S197 to where the Euro cars in the same category have lost their edge.
All of this has been proven on the track as well.
It is all funny and I'm not sadden by any of this.
Overpriced: eh, how is a Mustang that can EASILY hit $40k not overpriced? Good grief - I can get a 135i for that!
Efficient? Do you mean like 300hp from 3L, vs 414hp (finally) from 5L? Or do you want to instead compare to BMW's actual high performance offerings? Maybe you like the 414hp from 4L M3 or the 500hp from 5L M5/M6 - both normally aspirated too!
As for "in the same category", into what category do the 2011 Mustang and a new BMW fit? Where are they being compared on the track?
05-02-2010, 06:53 PM
#26
Deputy CatDog - To Purr'tect and Explode
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NM
Posts: 1,900
That's exactly what I said - it BARELY HANGS (WITH 3.73). I didn't state it "COULDN'T HANG", I said it could - just barely - with the absolute best setup - 3.73s.
Seriously, are you kidding? Or are you REALLY alleging that 117 is better than 111? Or that the Camaro's Brembos aren't superior to the Mustang's stock brakes? Because the Camaro's ARE superior, even using the documentation YOU provided. And they didn't even do the tests that would show the MOST difference: 10 stops from 60mph, or 5 laps on a road course. At the end of which the non-SS Camaro brakes, or the stock Mustang brakes would likely be ruined or at best nearly useless for 10 minutes.
Go ahead. When you get to one, let me know. So far you're O-fer.
I'll tell you (again) what I see between them:
- Mustang has similar straight line acceleration.
- Mustang with Brembos has as good or better braking
- Mustang, at least with "Track Pack" (is that part of Brembo package, or is it GONE for 2011? Wish I knew!), clearly out-handles Camaro.
- Mustang has nicer interior, and acceptable exterior appearance
- Camaro has more powerful engine, and more potential for modding if you're into that.
- Camaro IRS has more potential, though very mediocre factory setup limits performance.
- Prefer Camaro exterior styling. Not fond of Camaro interior styling. Dash is awful, and inferior to Mustang.
Seriously, are you kidding? Or are you REALLY alleging that 117 is better than 111? Or that the Camaro's Brembos aren't superior to the Mustang's stock brakes? Because the Camaro's ARE superior, even using the documentation YOU provided. And they didn't even do the tests that would show the MOST difference: 10 stops from 60mph, or 5 laps on a road course. At the end of which the non-SS Camaro brakes, or the stock Mustang brakes would likely be ruined or at best nearly useless for 10 minutes.
Go ahead. When you get to one, let me know. So far you're O-fer.
I'll tell you (again) what I see between them:
- Mustang has similar straight line acceleration.
- Mustang with Brembos has as good or better braking
- Mustang, at least with "Track Pack" (is that part of Brembo package, or is it GONE for 2011? Wish I knew!), clearly out-handles Camaro.
- Mustang has nicer interior, and acceptable exterior appearance
- Camaro has more powerful engine, and more potential for modding if you're into that.
- Camaro IRS has more potential, though very mediocre factory setup limits performance.
- Prefer Camaro exterior styling. Not fond of Camaro interior styling. Dash is awful, and inferior to Mustang.
Several magazines have tested the Mustang GT and pulled a 12.7 or 12.8 out of it with the 3.73 ratio. That outperforms the Camaro which usually sees a 13.0 or 13.2. Edmunds, TheSmokingTire, etc.
Did I say 117 was better than 111? I said...its SIX FEET difference stock. Which is not enough to say one is incredibly more proficient than the other. Just like Mustang with Brembo's...its SIX FEET ahead of the Camaro...Not enough to say that it's worlds better.
Everything else you said I agree with. With a brand new engine platform, the mods for the Mustang GT won't start coming in until the cars start selling. However, I believe once the 2011 GT starts gathering a wide sale base aftermarket companies will come in and start manufacturing more and more parts for it. A good example would be to look at the 1999-2004 mod list for Mustangs...Last time I checked there were 10+ different companies that made superchargers for those years of Mustangs...Thats just crazy.
I like the center console gauge cluster on the Camaro though, that was a pretty cool idea by GM.
05-02-2010, 07:08 PM
#27
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: OH
Posts: 46
Where the hell are you getting your facts from?
Several magazines have tested the Mustang GT and pulled a 12.7 or 12.8 out of it with the 3.73 ratio. That outperforms the Camaro which usually sees a 13.0 or 13.2. Edmunds, TheSmokingTire, etc.
Did I say 117 was better than 111? I said...its SIX FEET difference stock. Which is not enough to say one is incredibly more proficient than the other. Just like Mustang with Brembo's...its SIX FEET ahead of the Camaro...Not enough to say that it's worlds better.
Everything else you said I agree with. With a brand new engine platform, the mods for the Mustang GT won't start coming in until the cars start selling. However, I believe once the 2011 GT starts gathering a wide sale base aftermarket companies will come in and start manufacturing more and more parts for it. A good example would be to look at the 1999-2004 mod list for Mustangs...Last time I checked there were 10+ different companies that made superchargers for those years of Mustangs...Thats just crazy.
I like the center console gauge cluster on the Camaro though, that was a pretty cool idea by GM.
Several magazines have tested the Mustang GT and pulled a 12.7 or 12.8 out of it with the 3.73 ratio. That outperforms the Camaro which usually sees a 13.0 or 13.2. Edmunds, TheSmokingTire, etc.
Did I say 117 was better than 111? I said...its SIX FEET difference stock. Which is not enough to say one is incredibly more proficient than the other. Just like Mustang with Brembo's...its SIX FEET ahead of the Camaro...Not enough to say that it's worlds better.
Everything else you said I agree with. With a brand new engine platform, the mods for the Mustang GT won't start coming in until the cars start selling. However, I believe once the 2011 GT starts gathering a wide sale base aftermarket companies will come in and start manufacturing more and more parts for it. A good example would be to look at the 1999-2004 mod list for Mustangs...Last time I checked there were 10+ different companies that made superchargers for those years of Mustangs...Thats just crazy.
I like the center console gauge cluster on the Camaro though, that was a pretty cool idea by GM.
Can you post links of "several magazines" that got 12.7 or 12.8 out of the new Mustang? I'd like to read those articles, and also see what those same mags say about Camaro.
As for the (agreed to be minor) braking difference, it was YOU who said you "proved me wrong" when I said stock Mustang brakes were inferior. They ARE inferior. I didn't say MILES INFERIOR IN A SINGLE STOP. But six feet is significant, and MUCH more importantly, the Brembos on EITHER of those cars will perform well in repeated stops.
05-02-2010, 07:30 PM
#28
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: OH
Posts: 46
Here's what I can find (summary: they're equals in a straight line):
Inside Line's 2011 Mustang GT w/3.73 test results:
Our Kona Blue Metallic test car had the ultimate performance package: a six-speed manual with the 3.73 gear. Out at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, California, on a very windy afternoon, our 2011 Mustang GT ripped off constant 0-60 runs in just 4.8 seconds (4.5 seconds with 1 foot of rollout as on a drag strip) and screamed through the quarter-mile in a best of 13.0 seconds at 110.6 mph, which is a half-second quicker than a 4.6-liter 2010 Mustang GT.
In fact, that quarter-mile time and trap speed would have been easy NHRA Super Stock Eliminator racecar performance back in '68 when the first 302 showed up. And it's quicker to 60 mph than the last 2010 Chevy Camaro SS six-speed we tested (they run the same quarter-mile), while a new Challenger R/T has no chance of keeping up.
Car and Driver:
The 412 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque, the latter on a gloriously flat curve that peaks at 4250 rpm, are achievements. It’s enough to knock out a 60-mph sprint in 4.6 seconds, and the quarter-mile in 13.2 seconds at 109 mph, which are more or less Camaro SS times. Finally, a Mustang engine that doesn’t have to eat dust from a small-block.
MotorTrend:
Equipped with the available 3.73 rear axle ($395), our 5.0 needed just 4.3 seconds to hit 60 and only 12.8 at 110.8 mph to knockout the quarter mile. To answer the million-dollar question: Yes, it's quicker than both the 426-horsepower Chevy Camaro SS (4.5, 12.9 at 110.7) and the 425-horse Dodge Challenger SRT-8 (4.6, 13.1 at 108.4).
Inside Line's 2011 Mustang GT w/3.73 test results:
Our Kona Blue Metallic test car had the ultimate performance package: a six-speed manual with the 3.73 gear. Out at Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, California, on a very windy afternoon, our 2011 Mustang GT ripped off constant 0-60 runs in just 4.8 seconds (4.5 seconds with 1 foot of rollout as on a drag strip) and screamed through the quarter-mile in a best of 13.0 seconds at 110.6 mph, which is a half-second quicker than a 4.6-liter 2010 Mustang GT.
In fact, that quarter-mile time and trap speed would have been easy NHRA Super Stock Eliminator racecar performance back in '68 when the first 302 showed up. And it's quicker to 60 mph than the last 2010 Chevy Camaro SS six-speed we tested (they run the same quarter-mile), while a new Challenger R/T has no chance of keeping up.
Car and Driver:
The 412 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque, the latter on a gloriously flat curve that peaks at 4250 rpm, are achievements. It’s enough to knock out a 60-mph sprint in 4.6 seconds, and the quarter-mile in 13.2 seconds at 109 mph, which are more or less Camaro SS times. Finally, a Mustang engine that doesn’t have to eat dust from a small-block.
MotorTrend:
Equipped with the available 3.73 rear axle ($395), our 5.0 needed just 4.3 seconds to hit 60 and only 12.8 at 110.8 mph to knockout the quarter mile. To answer the million-dollar question: Yes, it's quicker than both the 426-horsepower Chevy Camaro SS (4.5, 12.9 at 110.7) and the 425-horse Dodge Challenger SRT-8 (4.6, 13.1 at 108.4).
05-02-2010, 07:54 PM
#29
S197 Section Modder-ator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 13,373
Well, not surprisingly, I disagree with the parts that make sense of what you posted.
Overpriced: eh, how is a Mustang that can EASILY hit $40k not overpriced? Good grief - I can get a 135i for that!
Efficient? Do you mean like 300hp from 3L, vs 414hp (finally) from 5L? Or do you want to instead compare to BMW's actual high performance offerings? Maybe you like the 414hp from 4L M3 or the 500hp from 5L M5/M6 - both normally aspirated too!
As for "in the same category", into what category do the 2011 Mustang and a new BMW fit? Where are they being compared on the track?
Overpriced: eh, how is a Mustang that can EASILY hit $40k not overpriced? Good grief - I can get a 135i for that!
Efficient? Do you mean like 300hp from 3L, vs 414hp (finally) from 5L? Or do you want to instead compare to BMW's actual high performance offerings? Maybe you like the 414hp from 4L M3 or the 500hp from 5L M5/M6 - both normally aspirated too!
As for "in the same category", into what category do the 2011 Mustang and a new BMW fit? Where are they being compared on the track?
I'm fine with that and I'm done here.
MC, have fun.
05-02-2010, 08:00 PM
#30
Deputy CatDog - To Purr'tect and Explode
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NM
Posts: 1,900
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydykiWKW6fE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juqvt...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXusbh5hb8U
http://www.autorivals.net/sportscars...2010camaro.htm
http://www.cargurus.com/blog/2010/04...er-than-bmw-m3
And car and driver is notorious for hiring on slow drivers. Compare any vehicle with a C&D time and you'll see my point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juqvt...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXusbh5hb8U
http://www.autorivals.net/sportscars...2010camaro.htm
http://www.cargurus.com/blog/2010/04...er-than-bmw-m3
And car and driver is notorious for hiring on slow drivers. Compare any vehicle with a C&D time and you'll see my point.