best brand of headers?
08-04-2011, 12:14 PM
#1
best brand of headers?
so i've decided to go with a set of Long-Tube ceramic headers for my 07 GT/CS. which brand should i got with? i don't want to spend a ton of money but i know ceramic is going to cost a bit more which is ok, i just don't kow which brand makes the best for the cash.
08-15-2011, 09:28 AM
#4
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 2,612
People always say Kooks, that have paid the most for them to justify the expense..... Multiple tests have proven the MACs to make most power. I run the BBK for price / performance, but seriously look up the dyno charts...
Kooks is the way to go if your going to go with some crazy build with stage 3 ported heads and you want to have a custom made set with bigger primarys. Everything else, MAC wins...
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec..._products.html
Worth the extra $800?
Dr.J, not really fair comparing your brand new kooks to at least 18 year old MACs if thery were on a fox body...
Kooks is the way to go if your going to go with some crazy build with stage 3 ported heads and you want to have a custom made set with bigger primarys. Everything else, MAC wins...
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec..._products.html
Worth the extra $800?
Dr.J, not really fair comparing your brand new kooks to at least 18 year old MACs if thery were on a fox body...
Last edited by JDWalton; 08-15-2011 at 09:39 AM.
08-15-2011, 09:44 PM
#5
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 45
People always say Kooks, that have paid the most for them to justify the expense..... Multiple tests have proven the MACs to make most power. I run the BBK for price / performance, but seriously look up the dyno charts...
Kooks is the way to go if your going to go with some crazy build with stage 3 ported heads and you want to have a custom made set with bigger primarys. Everything else, MAC wins...
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec..._products.html
Worth the extra $800?
Dr.J, not really fair comparing your brand new kooks to at least 18 year old MACs if thery were on a fox body...
Kooks is the way to go if your going to go with some crazy build with stage 3 ported heads and you want to have a custom made set with bigger primarys. Everything else, MAC wins...
http://www.mustang50magazine.com/tec..._products.html
Worth the extra $800?
Dr.J, not really fair comparing your brand new kooks to at least 18 year old MACs if thery were on a fox body...
I feel that a company's quality can be attributed to the majority of their product line. If you have ever had to personally install a set off MAC headers on a Mustang, you would understand why MANY, MANY people do not recommended MAC headers....read almost any Mustang forum, and the vast majority of individuals will say something similar...of course, there are exceptions to every rule, and a small number of people swear by MAC products....personally, I think MAC mufflers sound absolutely sick on a 32V Cobra and many other Mustangs.....however, the MAC headers that I have personally had the experiences of installing and running have been absolute pieces of crap....plain and simple.
Overall, the quality and fitment of Kooks is above and beyond most exhaust companies. MAC is absolutely no comparison to Kooks, IMO. There are articles and charts with all sorts of numbers, and MAC headers might make good power with a specific combination, especially when considering cost. I would rather pay for a stronger gauge header with superior fitment and quality than save a few hundred bucks and deal with a painful install and persistent exhaust leaks.....but hey, to each their own...lol
08-15-2011, 10:21 PM
#6
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 2,612
you kinda missed the point of the article, or chose not to read it. The point was with all the debate over what does the best, they wanted to test them as equal as possible. That wasnt a MAC internal test where they stack the odds in there own favor...
I hear what your saying on quality of construction and fitment, but see no reason fro you to knock there headers with persistant exhaust leaks. I have seen many S197s running them with no issue. Again, are you comparing to your 18 year old + stuff?
I have no doubt the Kooks are a great header, I know many who run them as well. Just saying that when people come in and say, they cost the most but you get what you pay for and there for they perform the best, I like to re-introduce them to reality where just because you spend the most, does not mean you have the best performing.
If the Kooks were like $200 cheaper I would recomend them to most. As the reasons you said + the fact they had the highest average gain (meaning across the entire power band) but as it sits right now, the MACs are just so much cheaper and perform so well, I have a hard time recomending somone spend so much more cash, unless money isnt an issue for 1 HP average and -1 HP at peak...
I hear what your saying on quality of construction and fitment, but see no reason fro you to knock there headers with persistant exhaust leaks. I have seen many S197s running them with no issue. Again, are you comparing to your 18 year old + stuff?
I have no doubt the Kooks are a great header, I know many who run them as well. Just saying that when people come in and say, they cost the most but you get what you pay for and there for they perform the best, I like to re-introduce them to reality where just because you spend the most, does not mean you have the best performing.
If the Kooks were like $200 cheaper I would recomend them to most. As the reasons you said + the fact they had the highest average gain (meaning across the entire power band) but as it sits right now, the MACs are just so much cheaper and perform so well, I have a hard time recomending somone spend so much more cash, unless money isnt an issue for 1 HP average and -1 HP at peak...
08-16-2011, 10:26 AM
#7
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 45
If you are on a tight budget and simply do not care about product quality, by all means, go with MAC. There is a reason why so many bad street machines and racers go with Kooks...it is not by coincidence.
My points are based on the frustrations of installation and issues with the headers in the long term.If you have never installed a set of MAC headers, you simply cannot understand the frustration of dealing with poor fitment and quality for a few HP....that is reality, no matter how great the dyno graph of one magazine shows.
The MAC headers on my Fox were not 18 years old as you are suggesting. They were installed after I owned the car for a couple years in in early 2001-02. Installing another set (against my better judgment) on a friend's car several years later showed no improvement in fit and finish. Yes, MACs make power and can satisfy some individuals, but I personally would rather pay a little bit more for something that I feel will last longer and cause me fewer headaches down the road. Ultimately, if Kooks are beyond the budget of the OP, I would recommend BBKs over MACs for a few hundred $ less.
My points are based on the frustrations of installation and issues with the headers in the long term.If you have never installed a set of MAC headers, you simply cannot understand the frustration of dealing with poor fitment and quality for a few HP....that is reality, no matter how great the dyno graph of one magazine shows.
The MAC headers on my Fox were not 18 years old as you are suggesting. They were installed after I owned the car for a couple years in in early 2001-02. Installing another set (against my better judgment) on a friend's car several years later showed no improvement in fit and finish. Yes, MACs make power and can satisfy some individuals, but I personally would rather pay a little bit more for something that I feel will last longer and cause me fewer headaches down the road. Ultimately, if Kooks are beyond the budget of the OP, I would recommend BBKs over MACs for a few hundred $ less.
Last edited by Dr.JZ; 08-16-2011 at 08:26 PM.
08-16-2011, 08:39 PM
#8
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 2,612
Most people pitch the same stuff your pitching. There expensive so you get better. Yes the Kooks are nice, but dam... so much money and your not getting better performance. Most people assume and dont make the distincition. You didnt say "you pay more because they are made of higher quality material but dont pefrom as well as others" you implied there the best for all reasons.
Again, you want to compare your Fox headers. I really dont give a crap when you installed the headers. You put them on a Fox. A car that ran fron 1979 to 1993. The RD for the headers you put on were done probably in 1979..... So realistiacly your talking about comparing headers that were designed 32 years ago with ones that were made in 2005.
Again, you want to compare your Fox headers. I really dont give a crap when you installed the headers. You put them on a Fox. A car that ran fron 1979 to 1993. The RD for the headers you put on were done probably in 1979..... So realistiacly your talking about comparing headers that were designed 32 years ago with ones that were made in 2005.
08-17-2011, 06:33 AM
#9
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: PA
Posts: 45
o.k., both you and MAC are the winners....I give up attempting to talk to people on this forum....I must be one of the few who appreciates paying for what the get in terms of quality, fitment, and overall gained power....I refuse to spend my money on junk headers, end of story....
At any rate, the content of this post will be a good story to tell at the AM show this weekend....lol....
OP, go with MAC because 5.0 Magazine and JDWalton say so.....have fun with putting them on
At any rate, the content of this post will be a good story to tell at the AM show this weekend....lol....
OP, go with MAC because 5.0 Magazine and JDWalton say so.....have fun with putting them on
Last edited by Dr.JZ; 08-17-2011 at 06:38 AM.
08-17-2011, 08:20 PM
#10
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: CT
Posts: 2,612
So your saying not only are you arrogant enough to brag that because you spent the most you have the best, but that you actually look forward to going out in public to try to make yourself feel better by showing it off in public. Well that, and your wrong.
You said they are the best. You failed to define best and learn from it.
Best fitment... maybe. All the high end ones have good fitment.
Best construction... Better then the cheap ones, but not much better than other high end ones. (JBA, SLP, Ford Racing for example)
Best performance... arguable.
Best price to performance? No, not even close.
For me to call something the best, it should be #1 in most those areas. Kooks gives you a good pipe, there's no doubt about it. But its not, "the best" and its crazy expensive.
Op, would an extra 2 hours on your install be worth $600 extra in your pocket? My work charges $400 an hour for my time, but when my time is coming out of my pocket, I'm not willing to thrown in that kind of cash.
Also, if you like the Kooks, take a look at the American Racing. There basically Kooks clones at half the price.
Dr. J, maybe if you had some experience with s197 and Mac, you could bash them. I haven't personally installed them, but I did my research when I was looking around. The most common complaint with the Macs was that you need to be able to get the front end pretty high off the ground to get around the steering column.
Also, for the record I never said you should go with them. I said that they perform better then the Kooks, or at least even with for 1/2 the price.
5.0 Magazine never said to go with them (though again, to assume you know more then the hard testing they did and published is pretty arrogant) they simply tested them all as evenly as they can in the hopes that people like you will stop telling people new to modding that they have to spend the most money to keep up.
For example I have an 08 GT with about $8K in performance mods and am making the same power as you. Your car is pretty nice, not gonna argue that, but considering its a $32K package... wouldn't you think you should have a little more? Then you had to go spend a few extra K to change the stuff to make more power... Not insulting your car, its REALLY NICE. Just saying its cost to performance sucks. Your buying the package and the name.
So have fun, go to the AM car show. Flaunt how much money you have and chuckle about how us lesser people who would think about not buying the most expensive parts must live. People are sure to think you are the coolest guy there.
You said they are the best. You failed to define best and learn from it.
Best fitment... maybe. All the high end ones have good fitment.
Best construction... Better then the cheap ones, but not much better than other high end ones. (JBA, SLP, Ford Racing for example)
Best performance... arguable.
Best price to performance? No, not even close.
For me to call something the best, it should be #1 in most those areas. Kooks gives you a good pipe, there's no doubt about it. But its not, "the best" and its crazy expensive.
Op, would an extra 2 hours on your install be worth $600 extra in your pocket? My work charges $400 an hour for my time, but when my time is coming out of my pocket, I'm not willing to thrown in that kind of cash.
Also, if you like the Kooks, take a look at the American Racing. There basically Kooks clones at half the price.
Dr. J, maybe if you had some experience with s197 and Mac, you could bash them. I haven't personally installed them, but I did my research when I was looking around. The most common complaint with the Macs was that you need to be able to get the front end pretty high off the ground to get around the steering column.
Also, for the record I never said you should go with them. I said that they perform better then the Kooks, or at least even with for 1/2 the price.
5.0 Magazine never said to go with them (though again, to assume you know more then the hard testing they did and published is pretty arrogant) they simply tested them all as evenly as they can in the hopes that people like you will stop telling people new to modding that they have to spend the most money to keep up.
For example I have an 08 GT with about $8K in performance mods and am making the same power as you. Your car is pretty nice, not gonna argue that, but considering its a $32K package... wouldn't you think you should have a little more? Then you had to go spend a few extra K to change the stuff to make more power... Not insulting your car, its REALLY NICE. Just saying its cost to performance sucks. Your buying the package and the name.
So have fun, go to the AM car show. Flaunt how much money you have and chuckle about how us lesser people who would think about not buying the most expensive parts must live. People are sure to think you are the coolest guy there.
Last edited by JDWalton; 08-17-2011 at 08:26 PM.
