Norm Peterson

The WL isn't the 'fix' for the problem stated in this thread. At the very least, not the first place to be looking. Bumps represent "noise" that needs to be muffled before you can hear anything else the car may be trying to tell you.

A WL does represent a handling change as hinted at in the other thread, but that's more along the lines of making the handling behavior closer to symmetrical on decent pavement. My guess is that its perceptible effect will vary directly in accordance with how much the rest of the suspension tuning has been tweaked (especially things that affect the geometry, and the accuracy of said geometry when it's loaded up with acceleration/braking/cornering forces).


Norm

steelcomp

Precisely. If the PH bar, and the dynamic of it shifting the chassis laterally as it moves through it's sweeping range was the ONLY dynamic taking place, then I believe in the best of situations, one might have sensitive enough butt cheeks to identify that one single dynamic, but with all the other dynamics taking place at the same time, and until your suspension (and experience) are so perfect that you can identify and separate that one single movement from all the rest, there's no way.

IN short, yes. The PH bar suspension is more than suitable for 99% of the driving, and drivers out there. Spend the time and focus on the blatantly obvious changes needed to upgrade the suspension you have, and work to improve your skills and knowledge as a driver and you'll be surprised at how well the car will handle, and how much the driving experience will improve. While the Watts link is an improvement, I think it's more of a bragging right than anything.
JMO

F1Fan

H steelcomp,

As I mentioned I can feel it but the Panhard bar handling weirdnessonly became an issue as the suspension in my carbecame less compliantthrough the elimination ofsoft rubber bushings and rplacement with poly or solid joints.I cannot always feel theeffects of the Panhard bar handling weirdness buton a flat smooth surfacepulling even moderatesteady state G's under power I can feel it no problem turning left OR right.Once you know what it feels like you can easily identifythe feeling no problem. It's not so much the handling feeling per seas the difference in the way the car responds to throttle and the way the car sets and rear end grip whenturning left vs. right. If all you did was turnleft or rightyou might not be able to make the distictionas easily but you mightknow that something felt weird. Mind you I agree that experience has something to do with feeling this little weirdness.

As far as a Panhard bar beinggood enough for 99% of the driving and drivers out there I'm not so sure. Ford makes a lot of cars with Watt's links in their sedans and these are bread and butter cars and driversnot some exotic performance cars.As far as a Panhard bar beingonly good for bragging rights I suggestyou go drive an S197 with a Watt's link installed, you may be surprised at what you feel (or don't feel actually) and change your mind.Steelcomp by now youknow me pretty well so when I reverse what I say it is not without very good reason. That reason was spending an hour driving aSaleen PJ Edition in my home canyons looking for a way to not have to eat my words. There was just no way to honestlyavoid having to dig in and take a big bite of that crowafter that drive in that Saleen PJ.

HTH!

forester

Take a look at this site
http://fays2.net/

F1Fan

Hi forester,

Welcome to thebest S197forums on the net! Here is a quickrun down between the Watt's link designs. Lakewood seems to have never gone intoproduction and thereare conflicting stories aboutLakewood's Watt's link production from Lakewood's own management so I left them out. The Lakewood Watt's link was not a good design anyway so there wasno real loss to the market anyway.

$600. The Fayes2 Watt's linkis not really a contender heremostly due to a series ofsmall design andconstruction compromises and issues due to thenature of the Fayes2 Watt' link adapted from other cars design. The Fayes2 Watt's link is relatively inexpensive but you know the old saying which still holds true today "you get what you pay for" and what you don't. Track Pros: improved handling, well centered axle,adjustable roll center height, rod-ends for maximum precision. Track Cons:Non adjustable linkage,higher weight due to crude construction methods, axle attachment weakness. Street Pros: improved handling, well centered axle. Street Cons: noise, vibration andharshness,ground clearance, increased maintainence scheduleand parts cost.

$????not likely price competitive. IMO the best overall designthe Steeda Watt's link was designed for a serious high-performance street car,street drivencars that see a lot of road course track time and dedicated road racing S197's. The Steeda design will probably be lighter weight, stronger and better fabricated with superior NVHisolation, linkage geometry and adjustability which theFayes2 design lacks. Track Pros: improved handling, well centered axle,fully adjustable linkage and pivot geometry, adjustableroll center height, lower weight. Track Cons: uses small, low deflection bushings which are not as precise as rod-ends. Street Pros: improved handling, well centered axle, durable, lower maintainence, quiet. Street Cons: ground clearance.

$1050. The Griggs Watt's link is an inovativedesign and has adjustable roll center heightbutis somewhat lacking in the linkagegeometry and also has the issue of being too noisy for street use. Track Pros: improved handling, well centered axle, very lightweight, adjustable roll center height, rod-ends for maximum precisionand zero deflection. Track Cons: non adjustable linkage geometry. Street Pros: improved handling, well centered rear axle. Street Cons: increasednoise, vibration and harshness, increased maintainence and replacement parts costs.

$1,000. Saleen's Watt's link is a bit of a compromise being designed as a simple bolt-on fora production oriented assembly line update tothe normal S197GT street car application and lacks roll center heightadjustability but it's veryquiet and reliable with no real maintainence required. The Saleen PJ Watt's link can easily be improved, I've designed newlinks making them adjustable and relocating their mounting points on the chassis to optimize the link and pivotgeometry. Sort ofnutty but all you really need to dois make the links adjustable and you'd have pretty much the best of both worlds. TrackPros: improved handling, well centered rear axle, strong, simpleyet lightweight. Track Cons: non adjustable roll center height, non adjustable linkage geometry,usesHD bushingsallowing some deflection. Street Pros: Improved handling, well centered rear axle, very quietOEM likeNVH levels, extremely durable, extremelylowmaintainance cost and service schedule. Street Cons: none.


HTH!

<< EDITED: Added design notes and prices >>