Argonaut

Back when I was more naive and had just purchased a new Mustang, I, like many folks, believed all the hype about big brake kits. You know the stuff: 'stock brakes are aweful', 'get the Brembos', 'you need 14" rotors and 6 pot calipers', etc, etc.

Then I found mustangForums and read the posts of RodeoFlyer, CrazyAl, F1Fan, and others. What I learned was - big brake kits are not the bomb. With a few simple, low cost mods its possible to make the stock 2 pots work very, very well.

So I tried it. Talked to Sam Strano and he set me up with ATE Super Blue, Goodrich lines and HT-10 fronts with HP+ rear pads.

Wow! They work fantastic. 160 miles today on Pocono north and not a hint of fade.My instructor did 5 laps at ~70% in my car (which if you don't know, feels like about a 150% to someone uninitiated on a track) and he thought the brakes excellent. I could dive deeper and deeper into the corners as I progressed and never had a worry.

Thanks Sam! great recommendation.

houstonnw

Absolutely! I went to Sam for my Koni's but already had Carbotech pads front and back.

My instructor races in American Iron and commented how good my brakes were - XP10's front and XP8's in the back.

Somebody needs to explain to both of us why you need a 14" Big Brake Kit for the street!

Sam Strano

You need 14" brakes because they are cool, and it's easy to sell cool. I am constantly fighting preconceived notions that all stock stuff is horrible. Some of it is, some of it could use an upgrade, some of it works pretty damned well.

Brian (that's Argonaut), I'm glad the brakes worked well for you and appreciate the props. There are even pads "above" HT10's if we ever need them... but like anything if we don't need more, why pay more?

Import_Slaya

Another stock brake user here. As long as you have good pads and fluid, the stock brakes are just fine for open track use. I've had excellent luck with EBC Yellowstuff pads. Very streetable for a track pad. The best part about staying with the stock calipers is that you can get OEM replacement rotors for $40 a pair!

Another suggestion I'll make is to add brake ducts if you will be open tracking at all.

steelcomp

Stock brakes will work, and you can do a lot to improve them, but they're not going to give you the performance of the right upgrade. I did the typical upgrades as listed above, along with the Quantum ducting, and while although a drastic improvement over stock, they weren't exactly "confidence inspiring". Drive a car with the stock brake upgrades as listed, adn then one with upgraded brakes, and you'll see the difference. I agree that 14" brakes are overkill for these cars, but a good 13" four-pot Wilwood is hard to beat. With any aftermarket brake upgrade, the two piece rotor is the biggest advantage. If you;re not going two-piece, don't waste your $$, as in the GT500 brakes. Too heavy, and too expensive for what you get. With a two piece, you're going to get a rotor that's made to handle the heat and abuse of hard braking, and the aluminum hat is lighter, offering less unsprung weight, and it also helps isolate the hub and wheel bearings from the added heat, which can cause problems. (I've seen the stock plastic dust covers melt out of these hubs) The stock caliper is not a bad piece, and there are budget oriented upgrades that allow a 2 piece rotor with a modified bracket to re-locate the caliper. However, an aftermarket caliper is going to have the advantages of being made of better material, more rigid which allows for better brake feel, and able to handle the heat better. Four or six pot calipers dissipate more heat faster, and have more clamping force, although not always a needed benefit. The larger rotor is also a benefit in more mechanical advantage, but again, there's a trade off where the larger dia. rotor's surface speed is greater, and going to generate more heat faster, and be a little heavier. This is why I don't think the 14" rotors are of any benefit here except in all out full competition where you're carrying big speed into the corners, are on and off the brakes a LOT,and have race rubber. Slotting and/or drilling the rotors is another advantage, although you can get good replacement rotors with these mods. I would never recommend drilling or slotting a factory rotor, though. Centric makes about the least expensive, best quality replacement rotors that I've seen if that's what you're after. I'm not a big fan of drilled rotors, adn they all seem to crack eventually, so I stick with slotting. Centric dosen't slot their rotors all the way to the edge, either, which eliminates a stress riser at the edge of the rotor.Just one of those "little" details that make a difference to me. These are the best brakes Ford has ever put on a production performance vehicle by far, but IMO, there's no reason to push somehting beyond it's design when there are reasonable aftermarket upgrades available. You don't have to spend $2400 on rediculously expensive 14" brakes. There is a reasonable middle ground.

houstonnw

As I posted above, my AI instructor didn't fade my brakes at TWS. And they can engage the ABS from any speed, 125mph on the front straight by the way.

Just curious, so what difference can I expect to see?

steelcomp

Better braking.I know, but that's the best answer I can give you. You're probably thinking "how much better can it be??" If you have theopportunity to drive a car with good aftermarket brakes, take it. If you're a relatively inexperienced driver, you may not be able to take full advantage or recognize the benefit, but someone with experience will. Your instructor could have very well faded your brakes if he wanted to, that's why he's an instructor. He knows how to drive within the capability of the equipment. At 125 mph, he's thinking about the brakes going into the next turn, I promise you, and slowing accordingly, as NOT to fade them. For one thing, with better brakes, or I should say the "right" brakes, he could concentrate more on driving, and less on conserving brakes. Like I said, it's all relative. With street tires and limited traction and driver experience, it's less of an issue.With all the mods suggested and cooling ducts, my brakes were pretty much toast by the end of my sessions at Buttonwillow, but I was pushing my car to near it's limits. It was a nuisance having to "worry" about brakes near the end, and admittedly, I did almost go through a few turns, but fortunately, because of the upgrades, it didn't happen. Bigger brakes would have definitely been nice at that point, and that was on 255/45-18 Nittos...not exactly ground braking traction. Now I have (just purchased and yet to install) new rims and 275/40 PS2's and the Wilwoods are finally going on. Finally, there is the fact that some pro drivers are good on brakes, and some are hard on them. Driving style plays a part here. as well.

houstonnw

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Yes, this was on 255/50 Kuhmo SPT street tires, so that might make a big difference. So even on the track, at least at TWS counter-clockwise, the brakes are better than the tires.

Now next month I'm doing TWS clockwise. You come off the front straight and have to brake from 125-50 rather than 125-80, and the temperature will be 20 degrees higher.

I'll definitely post if the stock brakes with upgraded pads work. Nice thing is if the brakes fade, then I just go around the oval. Call me Houston (NASCAR) nw!

Import_Slaya

I guess I just haven't seen the need to upgrade the stock calipers or rotors. Hard stops, trail braking, light modulation are all fine with the stockers (and yes, I've driven the "nicer" 4 and 6 pot setups).

Going to a 13" rotor gives you a whopping extra 0.6" of diameter, which is 0.3" towards torque increase. Negligible extra braking torque and negligible extra heat sink capacity. I've yet to see a problem that better fluid, pads and ducting can't solve with the stock calipers, and my local track is pretty tough on brakes.

Argonaut

Hi Steelcomp - thanks for the inputs, interesting to read. I've read some of your posts before and I understand you use to be a pro or amature race car driver (sorry, forgot which). That probably makes you capable of exploring the limits of this car to a far greater extent thanabout 99% of us on this forum. So, its not surprising that you can find and even exceed the limits of the stock rotors and calipers (assuming upgraded pads and fluid).

The point of my post however was to say that the stock equipment is pretty darn good and for the majority of us, its all that is needed...at least until we get closer to your level of driving. As you know, there is a whole school of thought that many, many naive folks buy into which says you must spend a couple grand on brakes in order to stop the car worth a s**t.On the street, this issilly thinking. Ifsomeone is going to fade a properly set up stock brake system on the streetthen they are going way too fast. On the track - well I guess I'll eventually find out. I'll be doing several moreHPDE events this seasonat Summit, Beaver Run, NJ Motorsports and probably Nelson Ledges. Maybe Pocono is not particularly hard on brakesor maybe its just the HPDE format -30 min on the track then back to the paddock, or maybe its because I'm not running R-CompsbutI for sure did not exceed their limits.

So - I'm pretty happy with my couple hundred dollar upgrade vs couple thousand that so many seem to think is needed. I will say however that I don't particularly like the feel of the stock brakes - I'd prefer a little firmer pedal (I have SS lines and they are properly bled)and better feedback. But for the price, I find the stopping power just fine.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to try a set of high end brakes soon and then I'll be able to better judge if spending all the cash is worth it. But for now I'm good with the stock setup and prefer to spend the cash on seat time.