Sam Strano

The Koni's just seem to damp the car better. Not only do I prefer the Koni's, but a few others here who've had both D-Spec and Koni both also found the same thing. Kobie being one, the other being the customer I posted about in the "customer's view thread". His name is Bob Kwiatkowski but he likes to lurk and not get involved in what often degrade into unproveable internet arguments.

I'm not hating on D-specs, in fact they were better than I thought they'd be when I first tried them. But there are reasons they cost less than Koni's IMHO, and they involve things like the adjuster, the feel, and the warranty support.

Both have similar damping curves, but they are not the same. In fact at times the Tokico's flip-flop form digressive to progressive and back again. They just aren't as consistant, and the fact the compression moves around makes fine tuning them harder since you are changing more factors. Can you get close? Sure. If close was good enough I'd wonder why not run an "appropriate" non-adjustable. The fact is if you find a setting you mostly like vs. one you really like... I don't think the one that you mostly like will be your choice. It's close, but not what you want.

I think Koni's are superior. I don't think they are 200% better in performance than D-specs, and won't claim they are. I do think Koni service, if needed, is 200% better than Tokico's, and I also know that the number of claims I have overall Tokico vs. Koni per capita is much less with Koni.

alloutt

thats one of the reasons I went with the bilstien but now whether its my springs or dampers I'm trying to get the best out of the handling maybe I should just drop the money on coilovers

steelcomp

Call Jay at Ground Control. Very knowledgable about suspension on the S197's and has an awsome product. With a stock replacement type spring, there's always going to be a compromise.

SlideWRX

I have koni's on stock springs, and it's a significant improvement over stock, even on soft settings. I don't plan on going to stiffer springs.

Sam Strano

Coil-overs have their place.... Most folks don't need them. Most don't corner weight their cars anyway, and there is a wide variety of springs out there with different ride heights (and you can still do some corner weighting by shimming springs anyway.

If you are a serious, serious track guy and know what you are doing... coil-overs might be right for you. Otherwise a well picked set of springs will do 98% of the job. In fact, here's a couple of video's that show just what mostly stock S197's can do with some good shocks, an alignment and some sticky tires:

This past weekend DC ProSolo. Can is an F-stock Shelby GT, so it has Ford Racing Springs and Bars (Eibach's), Koni's, A set of Hoosiers on stock sized wheels, a cat-back, alignment and a set of Strano Performance Swaybar links. You'll notice how flat the car stays, and how it doesn't push, and how it's not loose as a goose. http://youtube.com/watch?v=-DsdX9PybR8

As for Ground Control. Good product. Horrible customer service. I stopped selling their stuff because it was such an ordeal to get what we needed. Can't knock the product if you have use for it, but most don't. And IMHO playing with shock damping has more effect on how the car feels drives than play with spring rate unless the changes are big, and you can drive the car to the absolute limit.

steelcomp

I don't get it...you'/re an advocate of adjustable shocks instead of fixed rate damping, but not adjustable suspension? What's the difference? You don't have to corner weigh your car to take advantage of coilovers. Set them all the same length and it's no different than non adjustable suspension. Probably more accurate than off the shelf stock style springs AFA ride height. Adjust them how you like... that's the beauty of them.Most folks don't "need" any of this stuff, anyway. Most folks don't "need " adjustable damping, or expensive sway bar endlinks, either. There's not a wide variety of springs out there for this car in stock form, thats the problem. The variety is very narrow, and limited, and non adjustable. Why is it that coil overs have to be for a"serious, serioustrack guy"? Can't a guy on the street looking for more than what the typical off the shelf spring is goin to give him, take advantage of what an adjustable spring will? Technically, the stock strut is nothing more than a non-adjustable coilover, anyway, so what's the difference?
Your examplegoes from good shocks, alignment and sticky tires to actually a Shelby GT with Ford racing springs, sway bars, Koni's, sway bar links, exhaust, and sticky tires...a bit more than a stock GT with dampers, tires and an alignment.
There are no rules limiting most of us to what we can or can't do with our suspension. Sure, throw a set of bars and off the shelf springs, some single adjustable dampers, and these cars will do great, and that's fine for racing in a parking lot or if that's what the rules limit you to. Some are looking for more, that's all, and there's plenty more there to be had, and you don't have to belong to some secret group with some special handshake to know what it is. It aint rocket science, and it's "privelaged information".

And as far as Ground Control goes, you should probably keep your sour grapes to yourself.

mygt500

Ok I am watching this thread....... once again lets keep it factual and proven and try not to let personal feelings get in the way...if an internet pissing match ensues this thread is gone!

Sam Strano

Why is it that my findings and opinions rub you so raw? Is there a need to call me things like Mr. Wizard? What good does that do?

As for my sour grapes. I didn't try and hide anything regarding GC, and in fact said if you have a need for what they sell it works well. As a supporting vendor on this site, and having had dealings with them, I don't think it was at all out of line to let folks know some details (both good and bad).

As for what you think I know based on the Shelby, you should know that this is just one car I've got experience with, and happens to be the car I'm currently driving and most relevant to this context. I've pointed out before that I also have a "regular" Mustang GT, and it also has shocks, but not the bars or springs. I have a '01 Z28 I've won 2 National Championships in, and it has a lot of thing (including a few GC parts on it), as well as 17x11's, different LSD, Clutch, flywheel, seats, headers, bushings, swaybars, torque arm... The point being you seem to think I'm someone who doesn't mess with cars and maybe has no clue what parts can do. If that's the assumption, it could not be more wrong.

I've found that most folks overspend and overbuild for their needs. Which is why I advocate the approach I do, which is more one step at a time. And those steps need to be well thought out. If the result satisfies them why should they spend more time and money on things they don't need? What's odd here is it's the guy who *sells parts* advocating the more conservative approach. And then I get slammed for it. But if I told everyone they needed everything and the kitchen sink, I'd beattacked for that.

Shard Phoenix

I think a set of good adj shocks/struts would go a long way in helping handling/ride, without the need for any other modifications, other than maybe a fresh set of strut mounts and some replacement bolts. Besides, you have a vette, im sure that you would have to spend crazy amounts of money to match its handling with the mustang! ADJ shocks seems like exactly what you want, and I am certain you will notice a difference, I know I did. German Cobblestone roads got a lot softer and much easier to drive, especially in the wet. And with the autobahn at my back doorI have had some chances to run the stang at high speeds, lots of float, difficulty with control at higher speeds, ADJ shocks alone were enough to see some huge control improvements, and yes I did go beyond that, but thedampers alone probably would have been enough if I never raced this car. I also had a Suburban, handled like a sloth, but a set of adj shocks on that.... just shocks made it an absolute dream at highway speeds. It also road like an escalade, and was more tame towing race trailers! Dont underestimate dampers.

Doing the least to your car is often the best,I dont see anyreason to build a race inspired suspension for the street, the street will never give traction/reliabilaty worthy of the set up, and most folks dont even auto-x. Its great to see a vendor looking out for their customer and looking out for there best interest... rather than just grabbing for cash, it shows a passion for the sport, and what hes doing. If he makes some money on the side great, but at least hes not one of they mega vendors that will just sell you the whole shelf and give you a product that is way more than you could ever need/use.

1500 dollars for a proper coilover set-up (Just the shocks/struts, springs and mounts) Or $1500 for all the suspension parts you will ever need on a street car. Seems like easy math? Additionally, in my limitedexperience coilovers aint that great/durable for DD use. I was very dissatisfied witha medium priced set on myprevious car

RodeoFlyer

Now that this thread has spiraled off topic -

1. I have dealt with Ground Control, and their customer service does in fact SUCK.

2. I have coilovers (KW ftw baby!), somy opinion is unbiased.

3. There are in fact a LOT of conventional spring options for the car.

Anyone with coilovers that has neither a set of scales and/or access to someone with scales and the knowledge to use them is well - a dummy. It is NOT just a set the ride height wham bam deal. As little as a 1/4 turn on a spring perch makes a big difference that the ride height may not reflect. Unless someone wants to adjust their ride height and swap their springs every other day they have no practical use. My point is that unless someone is going to take advantage of them they are a waste of money.

Going back to the OP - a set of Koni's or Bilsteins will set you free.