FYI: Test fitting of Strano Hollow swaybars--done
09-22-2009, 11:58 AM
#11
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What are the advantages of this versus the Hotchkis sway bars, which I'm actually running?
I believe though I may be mistaken that those are both tubular front and rear. They also come with heavy duty end link and the front is 4 way adjustable and the rear 3.
I guess that what you're going to be pushing with yours is the price, the hotchkis ones are $700 shipped! I can say as an absolute fact that all other sway bars are crap in comparison something like a Hotchkis.
So this would be a cheaper version that's minus the price from the comedy store.
I believe though I may be mistaken that those are both tubular front and rear. They also come with heavy duty end link and the front is 4 way adjustable and the rear 3.
I guess that what you're going to be pushing with yours is the price, the hotchkis ones are $700 shipped! I can say as an absolute fact that all other sway bars are crap in comparison something like a Hotchkis.
So this would be a cheaper version that's minus the price from the comedy store.
My bars will be more fairly priced. But again, if someone doesn't think that's true--unlike other companies who have their own products, I sell other brands so folks can make their own decisions.
09-22-2009, 03:41 PM
#12
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Hellwig
Steeda
Hotchkis
H&R
Progress Technology
Griggs
Eibach (not the FRPP kit)
The Hellwig bars are not hollow.
The H&R, Progress Technology, Eibach, & Steeda bars are only front adjustable
The Griggs ones only work with their coilover system.
There's only one sway bar that's built correctly.
That's really nice of you. Really. What's wrong with you honestly? Forgive me for not agreeing with your assumption.
If you'd like to say the hotchkis bars are not the best because of their tuning, that's fine, they're still the best constructed.
I also have to point out that you're exaggerating, the front bar you talk about is only 20% stiffer than stock.
Now I do run very stiff springs, and I have not had a problem with the tuning of the hotchkis bars but that makes sense that I wouldn't. I have no problem supporting the possible legitimacy of your finding that hotchkis bars are too stiff for the stock spring rates, but don't be rude while you make your claim.
Also I've installed the Hellwig, Steeda, Saleen and Hotchkis bars.
Last edited by Legion5; 09-22-2009 at 03:48 PM.
09-22-2009, 05:36 PM
#13
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As always Legion5 you are a legend in your own mind. You are all knowing, you are wise beyond everyone else on the planet. Though really, every time you open you mouth, so to speak, you just make everyone else seem that much wiser.
I'm a pretty patient guy, but I've had it.... BTW, in the other thread about tires. It's Michelin, not Micheline.... you'd think someone who is supposedly a tire engineer might have known that.
Look, everyone else is free to make their own decisions based on what either of us, and others have to add. But don't think for a minute I'm going to sit by and let you spew the crap you do and never call you on it. Show me your results. Real tangible results. Show me something other than rehashing what you've heard. Show me something that proves your knowledge. Trouble is you always, always stick your foot in your mouth somehow, someway.
I'm really quite done wasting time with you. For the rest, if you have any questions. Please ask.
Edited to add: Last time I checked, d to 4th power of 34mm (stock) is 1,336,336, and d4 of 38mm (Hotchkis) is 2,085,136. My math skillz may not be the best, but I think that's a little more than 20% different, something more on the order of 35%.... 1mm makes a big difference, my bar is about 10% stiffer of the full soft setting being just that 1mm bigger in front, and I'll be about 30% stiffer in the rear, again on full soft.... run the stiffer two settings at either end, and it's more.
And as for Koni... You're right, I have NO experience with Koni's on these cars, none what-so-ever, zero, nada, zilch.
I'm a pretty patient guy, but I've had it.... BTW, in the other thread about tires. It's Michelin, not Micheline.... you'd think someone who is supposedly a tire engineer might have known that.
Look, everyone else is free to make their own decisions based on what either of us, and others have to add. But don't think for a minute I'm going to sit by and let you spew the crap you do and never call you on it. Show me your results. Real tangible results. Show me something other than rehashing what you've heard. Show me something that proves your knowledge. Trouble is you always, always stick your foot in your mouth somehow, someway.
I'm really quite done wasting time with you. For the rest, if you have any questions. Please ask.
Edited to add: Last time I checked, d to 4th power of 34mm (stock) is 1,336,336, and d4 of 38mm (Hotchkis) is 2,085,136. My math skillz may not be the best, but I think that's a little more than 20% different, something more on the order of 35%.... 1mm makes a big difference, my bar is about 10% stiffer of the full soft setting being just that 1mm bigger in front, and I'll be about 30% stiffer in the rear, again on full soft.... run the stiffer two settings at either end, and it's more.
And as for Koni... You're right, I have NO experience with Koni's on these cars, none what-so-ever, zero, nada, zilch.
Last edited by Sam Strano; 09-22-2009 at 05:58 PM.
09-22-2009, 07:01 PM
#14
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As always Legion5 you are a legend in your own mind. You are all knowing, you are wise beyond everyone else on the planet. Though really, every time you open you mouth, so to speak, you just make everyone else seem that much wiser.
I'm a pretty patient guy, but I've had it.... BTW, in the other thread about tires. It's Michelin, not Micheline.... you'd think someone who is supposedly a tire engineer might have known that.
Look, everyone else is free to make their own decisions based on what either of us, and others have to add. But don't think for a minute I'm going to sit by and let you spew the crap you do and never call you on it.
Show me your results. Real tangible results. Show me something other than rehashing what you've heard. Show me something that proves your knowledge. Trouble is you always, always stick your foot in your mouth somehow, someway.
I'm really quite done wasting time with you. For the rest, if you have any questions. Please ask.
Edited to add: Last time I checked, d to 4th power of 34mm (stock) is 1,336,336, and d4 of 38mm (Hotchkis) is 2,085,136. My math skillz may not be the best, but I think that's a little more than 20% different, something more on the order of 35%.... 1mm makes a big difference, my bar is about 10% stiffer of the full soft setting being just that 1mm bigger in front, and I'll be about 30% stiffer in the rear, again on full soft.... run the stiffer two settings at either end, and it's more.
And as for Koni... You're right, I have NO experience with Koni's on these cars, none what-so-ever, zero, nada, zilch.
I'm a pretty patient guy, but I've had it.... BTW, in the other thread about tires. It's Michelin, not Micheline.... you'd think someone who is supposedly a tire engineer might have known that.
Look, everyone else is free to make their own decisions based on what either of us, and others have to add. But don't think for a minute I'm going to sit by and let you spew the crap you do and never call you on it.
Show me your results. Real tangible results. Show me something other than rehashing what you've heard. Show me something that proves your knowledge. Trouble is you always, always stick your foot in your mouth somehow, someway.
I'm really quite done wasting time with you. For the rest, if you have any questions. Please ask.
Edited to add: Last time I checked, d to 4th power of 34mm (stock) is 1,336,336, and d4 of 38mm (Hotchkis) is 2,085,136. My math skillz may not be the best, but I think that's a little more than 20% different, something more on the order of 35%.... 1mm makes a big difference, my bar is about 10% stiffer of the full soft setting being just that 1mm bigger in front, and I'll be about 30% stiffer in the rear, again on full soft.... run the stiffer two settings at either end, and it's more.
And as for Koni... You're right, I have NO experience with Koni's on these cars, none what-so-ever, zero, nada, zilch.
The hotchkis sway bar is 20% stiffer, you're not calculating it with the correct wall thickness at all I can't believe you didn't even take the inner diamiter into account because that's just omg so ridiculous you must be on drugs. *froth* *froth* *froth*
I've verified the calculation myself, and it's about 800 lbs/in.
Keep in mind that besides being the only correctly built sway bars that will fit on the stock mustang, they are built by hotchkis not a subcontractor on their own CnC machines and other equipment, their pieces were also tested for consistency, reliability and lack of bind on custom testbed. These have the highest build quality and the guy who engineered them is a genius, they were designed entirely digitally and optimized for consistency using computer aided design.
I said I know for an absolute fact and I do, and simply put they are the most well thought out, consistent, bind free, lightest, most well made, sway bars you can get, with the greatest range of adjustability, I've done my investigation on this and spent my time figuring things out to a very extensive degree.
My knowledge took a long time to piece together for all the adjustable sway bar manufacturers and I'd appreciate if you respected the efforts.
Go ahead be ridiculous some more if you want. I need the entertainment.
Last edited by Legion5; 09-22-2009 at 07:03 PM.
09-22-2009, 07:10 PM
#15
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Again you know it all... or seem to think you do.
Look, you stuck your nose into this thread. You can verify all the calculations you want, I'm pretty sure everyone else can do the math as well and see who's more accurate you claiming a 1.5" bar is only 20% stiffer than a 34mm, or my math @ about 35%.
I'd appreciate it if you just stayed out of this thread. If you want, you can start one of your own with your own claims about how things work in your world. And I will "froth" at the mouth because I can't stand internet engineers--everyone is an expert. Actually doing something to prove the worth of the parts, well, who needs it? I do. I am not an engineer, don't claim to be. What I am is smart, a good driver, a good test driver, and diligent about the things I want--and know why.
Look, you stuck your nose into this thread. You can verify all the calculations you want, I'm pretty sure everyone else can do the math as well and see who's more accurate you claiming a 1.5" bar is only 20% stiffer than a 34mm, or my math @ about 35%.
I'd appreciate it if you just stayed out of this thread. If you want, you can start one of your own with your own claims about how things work in your world. And I will "froth" at the mouth because I can't stand internet engineers--everyone is an expert. Actually doing something to prove the worth of the parts, well, who needs it? I do. I am not an engineer, don't claim to be. What I am is smart, a good driver, a good test driver, and diligent about the things I want--and know why.
09-26-2009, 05:33 PM
#16
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Sam, any time some one disagrees with your opinion you have these power trips over the most ridiculous things and they're annoying too.
The hotchkis sway bar is 20% stiffer, you're not calculating it with the correct wall thickness at all I can't believe you didn't even take the inner diamiter into account because that's just omg so ridiculous you must be on drugs. *froth* *froth* *froth*
I've verified the calculation myself, and it's about 800 lbs/in.
Keep in mind that besides being the only correctly built sway bars that will fit on the stock mustang, they are built by hotchkis not a subcontractor on their own CnC machines and other equipment, their pieces were also tested for consistency, reliability and lack of bind on custom testbed. These have the highest build quality and the guy who engineered them is a genius, they were designed entirely digitally and optimized for consistency using computer aided design.
I said I know for an absolute fact and I do, and simply put they are the most well thought out, consistent, bind free, lightest, most well made, sway bars you can get, with the greatest range of adjustability, I've done my investigation on this and spent my time figuring things out to a very extensive degree.
My knowledge took a long time to piece together for all the adjustable sway bar manufacturers and I'd appreciate if you respected the efforts.
Go ahead be ridiculous some more if you want. I need the entertainment.
The hotchkis sway bar is 20% stiffer, you're not calculating it with the correct wall thickness at all I can't believe you didn't even take the inner diamiter into account because that's just omg so ridiculous you must be on drugs. *froth* *froth* *froth*
I've verified the calculation myself, and it's about 800 lbs/in.
Keep in mind that besides being the only correctly built sway bars that will fit on the stock mustang, they are built by hotchkis not a subcontractor on their own CnC machines and other equipment, their pieces were also tested for consistency, reliability and lack of bind on custom testbed. These have the highest build quality and the guy who engineered them is a genius, they were designed entirely digitally and optimized for consistency using computer aided design.
I said I know for an absolute fact and I do, and simply put they are the most well thought out, consistent, bind free, lightest, most well made, sway bars you can get, with the greatest range of adjustability, I've done my investigation on this and spent my time figuring things out to a very extensive degree.
My knowledge took a long time to piece together for all the adjustable sway bar manufacturers and I'd appreciate if you respected the efforts.
Go ahead be ridiculous some more if you want. I need the entertainment.
Hi Legon5,
Maybe you can clear it up for me, what is the tubing thickness of the Hotchkis bars? Maybe you guys are working with different data?
HTH!
09-26-2009, 05:37 PM
#17
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Only one more step.... Installation with a Fays2 Watts link to ensure clearance (looking good so far), finalize costs, and start production.
The bars are *both* hollow, not just the front. *Both* will be 3 way adjustable (not just the front). In fact the rear bar @ 22m hollow is a full 5 pounds less than the stock GT 20mm bar--and stiffer, and tuneable. In fact between the 3 adjustments at each end that's a lot of different combinations you can try to tune the balance.
I mention this because a number of folks have been asking when.... and it's close, real close.
The bars are *both* hollow, not just the front. *Both* will be 3 way adjustable (not just the front). In fact the rear bar @ 22m hollow is a full 5 pounds less than the stock GT 20mm bar--and stiffer, and tuneable. In fact between the 3 adjustments at each end that's a lot of different combinations you can try to tune the balance.
I mention this because a number of folks have been asking when.... and it's close, real close.
I'm wondering if your new rear bar will fit properly with a Saleen PJ Watt's Link? My current setup is made up of Steeda coilovers with 325lb/in springs in front and 250lb/in springs in the rear with Steeda 35mm bar in front and the old Steeda 20.6mm rear bar in the rear. I like to play with my suspension as you know and have an interest in your new bars. Any images?
Cheers/Chip
Last edited by F1Fan; 09-26-2009 at 05:42 PM.
09-26-2009, 08:58 PM
#18
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Hi Sam,
I'm wondering if your new rear bar will fit properly with a Saleen PJ Watt's Link? My current setup is made up of Steeda coilovers with 325lb/in springs in front and 250lb/in springs in the rear with Steeda 35mm bar in front and the old Steeda 20.6mm rear bar in the rear. I like to play with my suspension as you know and have an interest in your new bars. Any images?
Cheers/Chip
I'm wondering if your new rear bar will fit properly with a Saleen PJ Watt's Link? My current setup is made up of Steeda coilovers with 325lb/in springs in front and 250lb/in springs in the rear with Steeda 35mm bar in front and the old Steeda 20.6mm rear bar in the rear. I like to play with my suspension as you know and have an interest in your new bars. Any images?
Cheers/Chip
09-26-2009, 11:35 PM
#19
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Hi Sam,
Fantabulous! Do you have a time frame for photos, prices and delivery?
Cheers/Chip
09-27-2009, 02:56 PM
#20
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Legion is saying that the stock bars are made out of a different pipe thickness than the hotchkis ones. If you are comparing the torsional rigidity, you have to factor in the wall thickness. In an exaggerated example, a solid bar would be harder to twist than a hollow one which would effectively give you a stiffer roll bar if the bars were the same dimensions and had the same mounting points. However, the mounting locations must also be factored into the equation, b/c a swaybar with the endlinks mounted 12" from the middle of the bar will have 50% of the rigidity of a bar mounted at 6" away. Again the bar can only provide as much stiffness as the mounts allow, which is why stillen chooses to mount their bars to the rear axle. I do agree that the stillen sway bar mount would prevent the use of a watt's link, but the addition of a couple lbs on the rear axle is nothing significant considering the mass of the rear axle itself. It would be a much bigger difference on an IRS car which has less unsprung weight in the rear. Wouldnt a watt's link add a lot more unsprung weight to the rear considering it is a lot more hefty than a little sway bar?