Sam Strano

The single most important part under the car are the dampers. The rear shocks from Ford are not good, and cause 95% of the hopping and skipping. Swaybars are for body roll, not for taming a jumpy rear end that is upset by bumps. And fwiw, the more you ask the shocks to do (as in asking them to damp more spring rate in a lesser amount of travel) the worse things get. Notice one of the above mentioning that after 7 months his ride is suffering--this is what happens (along with a less precise, less locked down feel) as the damping gets worse. The shocks get softer, and most think that will make for a better riding car, when in reality it's worse because the suspension is not controlled.

If you want to lower the car, then you need springs it's that simple. If you really only care about the look, then all you "need" are springs. If you care about how the car drives, then you want good dampers, the better they are the better the car works in both handling and ride.

Do you need camber bolts? Some do, some don't. If you upgrade to HD mounts they have adjustment in them, which means you don't need the bolts--and you fix the weak OEM upper mounts too. If you don't want to change those, bolts aren't a bad idea--but are best left to those that don't drive very hard as the small bolts don't hold as well as I think they should when really loaded up. An adjustable PHB is not a bad idea to square the body vs the axle from the drop.

I prefer Steeda Sports or Ultra-lite springs over the Eibach's because they offer slightly different heights and rates. The Sports are a little less low which gives better working travel, and the Ultra-lites have more spring rate to work with a similar drop. The Eibach's are not firm enough for the drop and you end up using the bumpstop more often and more abruptly. Again, the better the damping, the less bad it is. I carry not only Eibach and Steeda, but also H&R and Vogtland for the car as well (and really a few others). Frankly with a few exceptions the springs are less critical than the shock choice.

F1Fan

Hi Poco,

No disrespect but if you lowered your car 1.5"-2.0" as the OP posted by changing out just the springs and didn't feel any of the things I mentioned then you are driving on really poor tires, driving too slow for it to matter or you are not sensitive to what the car is telling you through the steering wheel and seat. This part of your post I fully believe "I didn't notice squat."

Did you read the OP's post? Larger anti-roll bars do not fix anything to improve the "wheel gap" nor does it "lower my car a good amount so it lookes good, and also removes wheels gap." Installing different anti-roll bars might "give me better handleing because the stock handleing isnt to good." but that would depend on a lot of things he does not mention and would be one of the secondary bits to install after better dampers all around and springs.

Continuing on the OP states "i dont want ot have to get supporting mods at first. if i lower the car 1.5 inches or 2 inches will i need something else to support that? what a good height. its my dd but also a track car.

im not concerned about having a rough ride but i would like better firmer handleing and much lower than stock"

Grammar and spelling aside the OP seems to be more worried about looks which he mentions quite a bit more frequently than any other issue he has with the car as it sits. Anti-roll bars cannot possibly "takes away that list of problems you speak of" unless he and the rest of us spend all of our time under the OP's car admiring his shiny new anti-roll bars and don't mind the gap.

HTH!

F1Fan

Hi abarker,

I used to have these springs too and found that they had too many problems for me to like them as a serious solution for a road course car. I like to install suspension for folks around here just to see how stuff works and for the most part people are more impressed with the stance of the S197 when on FRPP M-5300-K/Eibach ProKit springs (exactly the same springs) than almost any other conventional McPherson strut spring set on the market. They do look extremely good on the S197 especially when combined with large wheel well filling wheels and tires.

But sadly they don't perform as well as they look when pushed on the track or parking lot. Even if you fixed the multitude of suspension geometry issues created by the excessive lowered ride height you would still have a progressive spring that is too soft for too much of its travel. Here is the real problem with the FRPP/Eibach ProKit springs, Sam has also mentioned this in various posts, the progressive spring rate does not stiffen up soon enough in its travel to prevent the bumpstops from hitting the strut tops and rear frame rails excessively.

I do not know what you know about suspension but one of the worst things you can do for handling not to mention long term reliability is to allow the car to bottom out on it's suspension on a regular basis. When the S197 chassis bottoms out and the bumpstops are being compressed to the point they are effectively going solid the car at the slightest surface irregularity will try to snap spin on you. Needless to say this is not an attractive position to be in where ever you may be experiencing it.

The same thing is happening at the front of the car but because you are seeing understeer it is much less an issue and somewhat less dangerous when it occurs. I have had several cars with various different struts installed and FRPP/Eibach ProKit springs on which show evidence of regular bottoming of the bumpstops on the tops of the struts. I think this constant banging on the tops of the struts may have had something to do with the problems a couple of folks had. I only work on a few local cars and only when I think I can help guide them to a good place so this problem may be more widespread than I know.

I have never seen it mentioned or posted on any forums so who knows, maybe it's a secret the suspension gurus are keeping to themselves. But there are a TON of stories about people with front-end rattles that nothing fixes and no amount of locktite on the anti-roll bar nuts seems to fix. The interesting thing is that many of these folks are riding around on FRPP/Eibach ProKit springs.

So here is my tid-bit. Recently on more than one car with FRPP/Eibach ProKit springs (one with stock GT struts and one with D-Specs) people complained of a rattle coming from the front end that nobody else could find let-a-lone fix. After repeated trips to dealers and various "experts" they find me for some reason. So I dig around for a while and in at least two struts the gland nuts were loose which allows the internal strut cartridge to move around and rattle when under a dynamic load. I pulled the suspect struts out, disassemble the spring and strut mount and then crank the gland nut down in a bench vise and break out my special Jaguar XK-E tool (36" of hardened 3/4" steel pry bar) and tighten the be-GEEZUZ out of the nut using the spindle mounting ears. Usually if you can turn them they are loose. Reinstalled and BAM! problem solved I get cases of Boston Lager in my Garage God, the Freezerator.

Anybody else find this happening to their struts or have noises that just won't go away? I don't mean your ex-wife, the kids or your 3-legged dawg which you shot by accident while you were drunk one day 15 years ago.

Cheers/Chip

F1Fan

Hi ffk_pennywise,

Camber bolts are not ideal for cars that see serious performance use though for most folks they will get away with using camber bolts O.K. The problem is that camber bolts can and do break, they can and do slip and they may also contribute to spindle failures because they cannot be torqued to the factory specifed values. This is an issue that has been showing up enough that Ford has changed the spindles on newer S197's.

Use Steeda's billet camber plates and or a Steeda HD adjustable strut mount or other major brand of camber adjustable strut mount like Maximum Motorsports CC plates. AFAIK only Steeda's strut mounts are isolated and have O.E. level NVH. All other strut mounts I've seen are using spherical bearings welded directly to the mounting plate with a roller bearing for the upper spring seat which also is not isolated.

With regards to needing an adjustable Panhard bar this is something that many people cannot feel a difference from once installed because even though they think they are "fast" or "sporty" drivers they are not working the chassis hard enough for a better Panhard bar to make a difference to them. They could also just have numb butts but most folks don't have a clue what fast really is.

HTH!

F1Fan

Hi cdown16,

It's been my experience that 20" wheels and tires are for looks, hard to find real performance tires that fir properly and kill your ride. For the most part these setups are very heavy and have too little side wall give so the inital bumps have no place to go except directly to your fanny.

HTH!

NDN GQ

Great thread by the OP.

I just got my 09 and this is one of the first things i'm looking into doing. Pardon the noobery but what are FRPP springs? I'm really new to the world of RWD and Mustangs.

What dampners would everyone recomend? I'm just trying to set my budget for parts and then look for a shop to do the work for me.

DanielKSpencer

I just went from a 330i to this Mustang as well. I have to say the 330i has some awesome handling. I just like the Mustang forums better so I got rid of it and bought a pony, lol jk.

I did the FRPP springs which drop 1.5 inches and from what I hear are just the Eibach Pro springs repackaged. I used the MM camber plates and a UMI adjustable panhard bar. I bought all of it ahead of time so I could do the install all at once and most people said I would need all of it.

You want to use the Plates because the replace the factory ones that are known to fail, esp. after you reuse them, Plus they give your more caster/camber movement than the bolts do. I hear they keep your geometry more stock than the bolts do as well

Even though I had already bought the panhard bar, it's a good thing I did, because I did in fact need it. I had a shift that was enough to bother me anyway. I couldn't live with myself knowing my rear wheels were out more on one side.

I love the kit I have and didn't change dampers yet since I have hardly any miles on my car. I'll just wait until I need new ones and upgrade. I do all my own work so I don't have to worry about another fee except another alignment when I do them.

DanielKSpencer

FRPP= Ford Racing Performance Parts That's what I have and I love them so far.

Do the work yourself if you are mechanically inclined. I did mine at home in my garage. Used 2 floor jacks, 2 jack stands, a torque wrench, various sockets, dental floss and masking tape (to adjust the rear end) and I rented to own a spring compressor for $50.00 from autozone.

It wasn't that bad at all. Course I've been wrenching on German rides for a while. Too expensive to take a Bimmer or a Benz to the shop!!!

And F1Fan, didn't you used to recommend the FRPP/Eibach Pro springs????

Sleeper_08

Here is the thread that discusses springs

https://mustangforums.com/forum/s197...g-allowed.html

For a discussion on struts and shock do a search in this forum on Koni and you'll more than enough info to help you decide

NDN GQ

I would do the work myself. My old car I did all the wrenching myself but now the only issue is my current apartment complex management are real ****'s about working on cars and its not flat so no way to jack up a car and do anything to it hence why I'd have to pay a shop.

I'll read through that thread when I get home tonight. Almost time to get outta work and hit the gym on my way home.