majustin1

Hello,
First off im a big fan of searching but there doesnt seem to be a consensus on this issue.
My question is whether i should/need to add a cpl more "questionable" suspension pieces.
My mods are in my sig but for a recap i have around 500hp(crank not wheels) and traction is obviously a huge issue so i coupled the blower with new shocks/struts, lowering springs, upper and lower control arms and panhard rod.
Im going back and forth between "overkill" and "half-a$$ing" The car is mainly a street car hasnt been on track of any kind and may never to be honest. But im trying to decide if i should get a Panhard rod brace and the UCA mount. I didnt think of them when i ordered the replacements for the 3link suspension+panhard, and now im up in the air about ordering them... whether im wasting money or am i leaving a obvious weak link somewhere. So anyone with knowledge and experience chime in please. Ive read both of the pieces in question are "junk" and "worth every penny" so please give me a hand.
Thanks

DRock

The mount isnt really needed but the stock mount sucks and MIGHT begin making a clunking sound after a while and the fix is the mount or steeda stepped washers...........and for the panhard bar brace its like a $100 bucks y would you skimp on a $100 part after investing this much?

I believe that you should get it all but this is JMO

Derek

Sam Strano

Your piece of mind is what matters, Derek hit the nail on the head pretty hard--with what you have invested is it worth skimping on a few parts you think you need?

Personally I think the PHB brace isn't worth much. I do think the UCA mount could help you out for a couple of reasons. At the very least it won't hurt to have the UCA mounted more solidly, and have the option to move the instant center (which can help your traction a lot--that's why LCA brackets can help launching so much). But doing it via the upper arms doesn't induced roll oversteer like running a low LCA position.

I generally do the UMI part: http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...D=99&ModelID=5 It is on sale for 20% off the normal price of $99.99.... If you look at the picture you can see it's a beefy part.

Norm Peterson

Nothing in your sig adds any load to the PHB brace that would exceed that part's OE design loading - it's good for considerably harder cornering than you can develop with pure street tires (and you aren't going to smack the rear wheels into the curbs any harder or more frequently, are you?). I *might* recommend the PHB brace for those who are into drifting and have to cope with a somewhat bumpy surface or wheelhop while cornering sideways, but I just don't see it providing any real benefit otherwise. If your "peace of mind" still has you wanting it, for the
use(s) that your sig suggests you can safely put this one off until it's the very last thing you ever do to the car.

You're working with a bit more power than I have direct experience with, and I'll certainly go along with the "peace of mind" and the IC tuning possibilities that come with the UCA mount. Unlike the PHB brace, this thing will see more load from all that extra power (and the impact from possible overly-harsh clutch engagement and tire grip if you ever do take it to the dragstrip).


Norm
(sometimes I get paid to do structural analysis/engineering, other times I just loaf around)

majustin1

That all makes good sense and i was leaning toward the uca mount and against the phr brace.

Sam or Norm - I would like to know more about changing the IC with the UCA mount. I have done a lot of reading but im not familiar with this. I guess if you can do it with LCA relocation bracets, which i have, then it makes sense to do it with the UCA mount too. I have the steeda reloc brackets and i was gona use the hole one up from the bottom to be agressive but not to over do it. Does that sound correct for a 1.5 inch drop all the way around? and how would i need to use the UCA mount in correlation with this setup or should i change and move up a hole and compensate by moving the upper? Very unfamiliar with this process using the UCA mount so all you can give me would be good including the basic info of which hole to place the UCA in, Higher or Lower.
Thanks for the responses.

Norm Peterson

To be just a little bit picky, the "IC" in this case is really the Side View Instant Center (SVIC), as there are other kinds of instant centers depending on what you're looking at and in which direction you're looking at it.

Anyway, the SVIC for a 3-link (or 4-link, for that matter) is defined by the side view inclinations of the lowers and upper(s) - it's the intersection of lines drawn along their respective axes looking at them in side view.

Therefore, anything that you do that changes the link inclinations of the lowers, upper(s), or all of them will move the SVIC around. Lowering the car drops the chassis side pivots of both the lowers and the upper(s), normally moving the SVIC down and back. LCA relo brackets move the LCA axle side pivot down, which normally moves the SVIC up and back. If the the UCA mount has some vertical adjustability you can tinker with the SVIC location that way. And as Sam has noted, SVIC tinkering done via the UCA inclination won't change the axle steer that happens when you take corners.

Note that as the suspension moves up/down for any reason, the SVIC also moves. This can either increase or decrease the anti-squat effect, usually by small amounts.


Norm

majustin1

Thanks norm. That makes better sense this morning than when i read it last night.
Just a cpl questions and Sam i went ahead and bought the UMI part from you last night. Thanks for the info and the price was very good.

So i assume with the UCA mount that has 2 mounting holes, one is factory location and the other position would allow the front pivot of the UCA to be above the rear pivot??? That is correct for the optimal wheel plant/traction isnt it?
Im just trying to get a good visual for how to set up my car. Like i said it is lowered 1.5 inches and i was going to have the LCAs in the notch on the mounting bracket (steedas have 4) that put the rear pivot just above the fronts adn try to setup the UCA the same.
Should i try to align them in roughly the same angle, or angle them differently since the UCA doesnt produce the negative effects?
THanks again for the help, hopefully i get it set right the first time.

Sam Strano

Got the order Justin, and it'll be headed your way forthwith.

Thanks.

majustin1

Just to set the record straight on this incase others not familiar with the situation read this later. This is when the car is lowered 1.5".

When doing this you want to use the lower position in the UCA mount (it only has 2) when setting up the UCA. This puts the front pivot of the UCA below the rear pivot.
You want the opposite thing for the LCAs. U want the front pivot of the LCAs ABOVE the rear pivot.

UCA you want front pivot lower. LCA you want the rear pivot lower. Again not drastically on the rear so that it affects driveability. just slightly below level.
This is for optium wheel plant.