jahudso2

There is no way in hell you can bend the stock PHB on street tires. I've done auto-x and drifting in my car and never had any issues with the PHB. Your PHB had a previous defect.

Rube

I can't say if it was defective since I didn't have it tested but that doesn't change the fact that the stock bar is as stiff as a wet noodle. Being an Auto-crosser and and Drifter you can't have not noticed that. Right?

Norm Peterson

Could you please explain why you think this is so in somewhat greater detail?

A PHB is a very simple structural element, so it shouldn't take much effort.




I may ask an even simpler question afterward.


Norm

Sam Strano

Depends on what you are trying to change about the car's behavior.... They don't do the same jobs. I view parts just like pills. Take what you need to get better, don't take antibiotics for pain.....

If you dislike the amount of body roll, and the balance of the car and would like to make it corner more flatly and more neutrally, then you would consider bars. If you dislike the ride quality and how well damped (or not) the car is--how it takes a set, settles down, etc then you would look to dampers first.

I think the car can use both. But personally I'd have to say shocks/struts (dampers) first, but bars before anything else since they gain you wheel rate without a ride quality penalty, and really change the balance for the better.

Sam Strano

I have a number of PHB's available. I would not recommend an all poly type though because the PHB runs on a fore/aft angle which puts the bushings in a bind.

I'd recommend this instead: http://stranoparts.com/partdetails.p...D=79&ModelID=5

Combines free articulation like a rod-end but without the noise of a rod-end... And if the joints ever make noise, you can tighten them--and even rebuild them (easily) with all new guts. But they have a lot more bearing surface area than any rod-end which makes them more durable, and the adjustable tension means they are quieter too.

Hey, if you want a non-adjustable all poly, binding (in this car) PHB we have those too, starting @ $74.99

Sam Strano

The bar part is actually very stiff--being that it's tubular and works in tension/compression. The bushings are very soft (and have gaps in them to make them more compliant).

I've see PHB's bend, but it's rare and usually preceded by some joker putting a jack under it by mistake (or a jack slipping off the differential).

are there better than stock PHB's for less overall deflection? You bet--but the deflection is not due to the tubing. I accept you bent one, just think there are mitigating circumstanced as to why.

DRock

How noisy are rod -ends on panhard bars? I have poly/rod-end LCA's and they arent bad at all?

Sorry for the thread jack but its kinda related

Rube

1. The stock rubber bushings have a lot of give.
2. The stock bar is made of pretty thin wall tube.
3. The stock bar is made of fairly small diameter tube.
4. The stock bar is pretty long relative to it's diameter.
5. When I replaced the stock bar I put the bolts in an original and adjusted the replacement bar to fit over the bolts. While they were connected in that way I picked them up by grasping both with one hand in the middle. I noticed that just with hand pressure I could deflect the stock bar quite a bit. And yes, I know the bar is not placed under load in that way but still...

I knew no one would believe me. I didn't hit anything, jack on it, heat it or even think unkind thoughts about it. BTW it was bent down, toward the ground.

Norm Peterson

#5 is what I was expecting to see, and assuming that the bar was not defective (read: initially bent/dented/etc.) or similarly damaged by some manner of abuse, this direction of flexibility does not accurately reflect its deformation performance under compression. The axial stiffness is maybe 300 times higher than the bending stiffness.

Abuse could include poor tie-down practice if the car ever had to be flat-bedded or possibly even on its ride to the new car dealership - I've seen a tubular lateral link in an IRS car fail at an autocross where this contributory cause was specifically mentioned. Is it possible that something like this had happened previously?


Items 1 through 4 would necessarily have to have been verified by a detailed analysis by Ford Engineering and tested before being signed off as acceptable for production. This might even include comparisons to other PHB designs for cars of generally similar size and weight with a proven "track record".

I ran some really crude numbers, 100 lbs in the middle of the PHB might deflect it 1/4" or so, in which case it will return to being straight after the force is removed. I can see a person making this happen with the car up on a lift, but nothing short of a freak incident with the car in motion would bend the bar and leave it bent.

My money is still on abuse at some previous point in time.


Norm

Norm Peterson

That still leaves the flatbed and the chance that something got stuck between the PHB and its brace. Is the brace also bent or show other evidence of this?

I'd be greatly surprised if the bar wasn't good for at least 5000 lbs in pure compression.


Norm